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pygmies dormant now?

swords

swords

I brought in all my plants off the patio last week and put the two pygmy dew pots into a potted terrarium and now they've gone dormant. Outside they had feeding leaves and tons of flowers but now they're just stumps with white fur so I guess they went dormant??

Do I need to water them at all or stop watering while they're dormant and let the pots dry up totally?

One is D. scorpioides (not totally dormant yet looks to be on it's way) the other is D. placenta ssp. leioblasta
 
I'm experiencing the same thing in about half of my collection. Some of them have obvious green in the crown, along with those stipules. Some just look plain dead. I'm not sure if those are dead or dormant. From what I read, we are supposed to keep them pretty much dry until summer is over.
 
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The stipule crown indicates dormancy. You want to keep them nearly dry at the surface, so no tray watering. I think having them in tanks might work against you, they are sensitive to mold at this stage and need air circulation.
 
Two D. lasiantha plants recently flowered. Now they both look dead. D. androsacea looks rough, as do anything with allantostigma in it, roseanna, callistos, and a few others. In contrast, D. manni, D. helodes, anything with omissa or pulchella, carburup, badgerup,... all still look great.
 
I never used Tamlin method but i did read that some people are with great succes. It's just too much work for me and it would just kill me to move hundreds of pots to water them every 2 weks or so.
I see no point of using it. If scorpioides go dormant they don't come back so it's best not to allow that. I keep all my plants in trays year round. In summer i let the top dry out a bit before i add 1-2'' of water in the tray. This way i weater them about once a week. Even if they are dormant they are ok if wet for a few days. You have far better chances in succesfully growing there if you don't let them go dormant then if you give them this dormancy period. In your case, i think it was a combination of temp and light intensity that changed and pushed them into dormancy. You should be able to grow these 2 sp wet all around.
 
Thanks guys, well they were outside in my CP tub in about 1" of water but the guy came and sprayed those bricks and for some reason instead of moving them back out with the rest I decided to put them in a terrarium. The scorpioides is putting up new leaves so I guess it's OK but the other is def. dormant. Nothing but little white fur columns (surrounded by hundreds of non dormant D. 'Jacoby' seedlings! LOL). I wonder if they go back outside if the placenta will come back or must wait til fall? I assume the placenta will die because I kill plants when they go dormant, generally I stay away from anything that does need varying care.
 
Mark has a good point, dormancy should never be encouraged, and many species will do fine if you keep them wet. But, if you are keeping them wet and there are indications of dormancy onset, then the other protocol will serve. I lost scads of the summer sensitive species before getting the hang of things, so don't feel alone . If you sow gemmae of these sensitive taxa always aim for deep pots from the onset, that helps as does a higher sand to peat ratio, like 75-80 percent sharp sand in the mix. Reduced direct sunlight, surface dryness and good air circulation ahould bring them thru to gemmae season. Individuals may or may not return which accounts for why these rare species stay rare.
 
The thing that gets me is that these plants are on a grow rack, right in front of glass doors, facing south. The temp varies between upper 60's and upper 70's, depending upon summer and winter and greenhouse effect and draft. In other words, it doesn't get hot where they are. It's essentially "room temp". I have read that summer dormancy is a function of heat. Are they really more affected by a 15 hour photoperiod than the heat? I should take a picture of what I am seeing...
 
Jim, something is off. My plants experience temps of 85-95 all summer long and only a few species like closterostigma, eneabba, miniata and androsacea go dormant. I have 50% shade cloth on the greenhouse from spring to fall and a good air flow. Like i said before, i water when i see the top getting dry by adding 1-2" of water. Hope this helps.
 
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  • #10
I don't know what the issue is. I just rearranged these plants, so these pictures aren't representative of how they have been juxtaposed. I had every pygmy pot on the first row of each tier of the rack, for maximum lighting. I just rotated the plants 90 degrees in the first picture. These are lousy pictures, but you get the idea!


Picture001-13.jpg


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Notice that the D. pulchella, carburup, mannii, helodes, omissa, badgerup,... look great. Notice that the lasiantha, callistos, enodes, andrsaceae, allantostigma,... look like garbage. Some plants have stipules where the crown is green. Some have stipules and all looks brown. Notice that the two lasianthas that flowered.. appear dead. They have all been under the same conditions, distilled water, fed freezed dried bloodworms (pulverized), same lighting, same temps, same treatment. They all sprouted well and did well through the spring. Then I hit a wall in the summer.

---------- Post added at 09:34 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:33 AM ----------

Next year I will invest in taller pots and only do watering the trays. Gemmae will be given new pots and fresh media of sand and peat.
 
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  • #11
So it seems like some species can make the transition from outdoors to indoors but others cannot?

I am interested in getting quite a few pygmies (Lake Badgerup, nitidula x pulchella, palacea, roseana, and scorpiodes) but being in a climate where year round growing is impossible I would too have to bring them inside eventually.

Would it be better to grow outside and then move inside or just keep them inside under strong growlights year round so the transition doesn't induce dormancy?

Knowing that dormancy is not recommended eases my worries about providing the pygmies with a suitable climate each season. I assume this just means the tray needs to constantly stay wet?
 
  • #12
I always took advantage of outdoor growing as much as possible. During the cold months when gemmae are forming the plants here needed to be protected. I used twin tube fluorescent fixtures with the crowns nearly touching the tubes for these plants and the newly sown gemmae pots. As soon as the weather permitted everything went outside in April, grown in tray water a couple inches deep where they remained all summer unless showing signs of dormancy Notably difficult species had gemmae sown in deep narrow pots to encourage deep rooting, needed IF there were signs of incipient summer dormancy to maintain surface dryness. From my experience, these sensitive plants did better again under the lights inside on open racks again very close to the lights, with a small fan to circulate the air. They were less stressed indoors and more likely to return from their dormancy. These plants were then watered by immersion for about 5 mins. in tray water weekly, then placed on a rack with no additional water during the week until good new growth was evident from the mass of protective stipules at which time they went pack outside until the onset of cold weather, as mentioned above. It was all hit or miss. Some few of the noted sensitive types remained in active growth, but the dry summer spell didn't really affect them. They remained actively growing while individuals right next to them went dormant. Of the dormant examples, I would always lose some individuals. The non sensitive types just stayed outdoors in 2 inches of water in full sun from April until frost was predicted, then indoors close to the lights as possible. Some would rest after flowering, and looked pretty ratty but didn't reach a true dormant condition. These types I allowed the trays to dry before refilling. It's interesting to note that even in bone dry conditions many species stayed active and growing with good dew, long after most other genera and species would have bit the dust. I also had them underwater for over a week with no ill effect.
Very tough plants they were!
 
  • #13
Thanks for the tips Tamlin!
 
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Jim, i can't tell from your pic if you have something there for air circulation or not. Your temps in the house may not get high but there near the window, in full sun it can get hot. Maybe shade the sensitive ones and give them only artificial light. Enodes is a swamp growing pygmy and it does not go dormant that easy. I don't like the size of your pots either. Top watering has its goods and bads. It's good that you can flush salts by top watering but it's bad because the roots may be disturbed if you are not very careful. That lasiantha is dead. If they turn completely brown...RIP!
I would try next year a few outside and start under a 60% shade cloth and go from there. I agree that outside they tend to grow stronger and have more color....but also stay smaller than the ones grown in GH or under lights.
 
  • #15
Just so you all know, Tamlin and I live ~125 mile apart. He gets Lake Ontario and I get Lake Erie for winter fun! What he can do outside is what I can do outside.

Modifications will be made for next year. I stumbled upon a nursery wholesaler while looking for more 2" pots, 6 months ago. When I asked why I needed them I told her that I grow carnivorous plants. Instead of the usual ,"you grow what?" response, it sparked an interest and a query about getting her a "cobra plant". From there I bring her extra sundews and butterworts and she supplies me with pots. She is also willing to house my temperates for the winter, in what would be just above freezing temps. All that is to say is that I can get any shape and sized pots I need.

I plan to catalogue which ones struggle through the summer. Marius: I have no fan blowing on the plants. They're just on a 4-tier grow rack, totally exposed to the air. I'm sure the temp rises a little in the afternoon, but not a whole lot. The closest the rack is to the window is ~9" away. The other factor limiting light and temperature, aside from AC, is that a couple months on either side of the summer solstice the sun is too vertical to shine in, being cut off by the roof gutters, at least on the top 2 racks. Even the bottom 2 racks it gets cut off past the first 2 rows. That's why I need the artificial lighting. I also have the fixtures tilted so it doesn't further cut off what shines through the glass doors. I'll also skip the top-watering for them and reserve that for something like D. aliciae.

Tamlin: which ones gave you the most trouble? I can say that pulchella, omissa, patens, badgerup, carburup, manni, dischrosepala, palaceae, helods, and sargenti seem to be the most easy-going. D. scorpioides and androsacea can be a small problem but not insurmountable.

Josh: Whaddya think?
 
  • #16
pulchella and scorpinoides dont like me.
 
  • #17
My D. "Lake Badgerup", though it had been kept wet, went into dormancy, or is heading into it, by the looks of it. :( I think the high temps we had for a few days may have triggered it, since I have mine outside, but I'm not sure. I'm hoping it'll come out of dormancy, not holding my breath though.
 
  • #18
I had 2 pots of D. scorpioides go dormant on me. They both looked horrible. I tossed the pot with the pink flower but kept the white flowered pot. Eventually, the plants that I kept, managed to come out of dormancy, after several month of being in a funk. Then they produced gemmae and I have second generation plants.
 
  • #19
  • #20
D. androsacea
D. citrina
D. grievei
D. hyperostigma
D. leucoblasta
D. microscapa
D. oreopodion
D. pycnoblasta
D. rechingeri
D. sewelliae
D. silvicola
D. spilos
D. walyunga

All were sensitives in my collection, probably others but these come to mind.
 
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