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Heeeeelp...... I just received GA3 for Byblis hybrid seeds....

  • #21
.Looks to me like depending on the source, the vendor either sends you one of three different sized scoops or one of three different specific gravity/density of product (grain size maybe?).

Either way, you need a set of good scales IMHO

hmmm seems like Cindy uses the pinch of this and a pinch of that method.... must not be too critical

But Id borrow a good set of scales from someone... and weigh out what my scoop held and be done with it.
 
  • #22
Which ppm should I use?

---------- Post added at 12:19 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:17 PM ----------

If I know grams and mLs and ppm, then I don't have to worry about scoops, right?

---------- Post added at 12:19 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:19 PM ----------

I can do this at work on Monday.
 
  • #24
jimscott said:
If I know grams and mLs and ppm, then I don't have to worry about scoops, right?
Click to expand...

Correct. But while you're at it you may as well weigh a level measure of the GA3 from the scoop just either clear up or add to the mystery. You could also measure the volume of the scoop with the aid of a pipette.
 
  • #25
Not a Number said:
Otherwise with 20% GA3 to make the standard 1000 ppm solution it would be 5 grams per 1 liter of water.
Click to expand...

I've read and re-read this thread a few more times. Forget the scoop and the table. The above formula works for me... only I'll just do 1 gram of GA3 and dissolve it in 200 mL of purified water.

---------- Post added at 06:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:20 PM ----------

Better yet.... I've got all these 50 mL centrifuge tubes... I can do .25 grams for each tube and devote one to each of the hybruds.
 
  • #26
Of course weighing the material is the best method,if one has access to a decent scale.

I thought measuring/mixing was the issue, as NaN had addressed the suggested "1000 ppm solution" at the very beginning of this thread. (Sorry, apparently I misunderstood what you were asking...)
Although I would start with the lesser concentration suggested (500ppm or even half that) & work up from there, or simply make a batch of the high concentration (1000ppm) mixture, separate it into small amounts & dilute a few of them in different amounts, to create different PPM batches for trial.)

The site claims (with many mis-spelled words) "The intructions sheets that come with heach product indicate how much fits into a scoop."
(Or in plain English: "The instruction sheet that comes with each product will indicate how much (grams) fits into a scoop.")

Having the instructions would have solved the "mixing" issue from the very start.
I looked around the thread here but didn't notice... What indeed happened to the instruction sheet?

If they didn't send one, they need contacting about it! If for no other reason than to inform them that they need to get their act together, lest other growers run into the same issue.

By the way, if you can weigh out 1 gram (or less) as you now mention doing, then there was apparently no problem mixing/measuring to begin with. I thought that was part of the problem, that you couldn't weigh the powder out. Again, sorry, my mistake.

Also, the weight (# of grams) the scoop (1/32 tsp) ultimately holds, can only be determined by the material that is in it (Specific gravity/specific weight).
[One tsp. of lead weighs more than one tsp. of water.]

Bottom line, find the instructions they sent, get a scale, or contact the company to get a copy of the instructions they didn't send the first time.


MacD?!
 
  • #27
I believe he got the ga3 second hand and the other person didn't send the instructions along??

Any who I see the ga3 is being used for bulks seeds here. Can it be used on nep seeds as well to get germination?
 
  • #28
Ohhh! So that is what Chris was referring to!
Where is that guy!
What a trouble maker!

But as I mentioned, trying out a few different concentrations is the safest route to go.
Even if you do measure on a scale... different seed respond differently IMO.
If I remember right, the rarer the seed, the more likely the mixture will be the wrong concentration...

I better go polish up on my mind reading skills now....
Seems they are in need of improving.
Good luck!
 
  • #29
Wow! Three pages? The whole discussion is actually interesting. :-O

Yep, my GA3 is 90% which is why I should be using 1 g : 1 litre water. But it is rather silly to use everything at a go, so I "devised" my own proportions without an electronic weighing scale.

The concentration I "concocted" was suitable for Byblis and Drosophyllum. It didn't harm Drosera and Nepenthes seeds and because they were pretty old, I though the GA3 might have helped since the germination rate was rather decent.

Sometimes, I make up a 50ml solution and freeze it in 5 containers of 10ml each. Works beautifully. :banana2:

So Jim, your "1 gram of GA3 and dissolve it in 200 mL of purified water" will be perfect. And "50 mL centrifuge tubes...0.25 grams for each tube" will be brilliant! Anything a little less will work fine too...just don't go over 1000ppm for the Byblis seeds. I've not tried so I don't know what harm too high a concentration can bring.
 
  • #30
Another 'wrench' in the works is that among the various people I've contacted, was Sheila Little (A/K/A Indymental), whose name also popped up in my Internet search for B. Guehoi. (or however it's spelled). She recommended a ppm of 100-250, as was mentioned earlier. So now I am cornfused as to whether it should be 1000 ppm concentration or ~175 ppm. That's a pretty big difference. LOL! So which is the correct ppm to shoot for. After that, the math easy. So is weighing things out on a balance, since I can easily do that at the lab in which I work.
 
  • #31
I also Messaged Brian Barnes but he hasn't responded yet. I'm torn between 2 people saying that it should be 100-250 ppm and 2 people saying it should be 1000 ppm. That's a significant difference! I also messaged Brian Barnes but he hasn't responded. Should I go for the higher ppm or the lower or shoot for 500 ppm?
 
  • #32
They could very well all be correct...

But if Cindy told me to sing yankee doodle dandy while I applied the GA3, I'd be singing yankee doodle dandy

(just my humble opinion)

So Jim, your "1 gram of GA3 and dissolve it in 200 mL of purified water" will be perfect. And "50 mL centrifuge tubes...0.25 grams for each tube" will be brilliant! Anything a little less will work fine too...just don't go over 1000ppm for the Byblis seeds.

I think she is using 900ppm if i understood her reply to ya correctly
 
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  • #33
Makes you wonder if GA3 is needed at all, especially at 10ppm. Maybe just soaking them for 24 hours in plain old water is just as effective.

BTW for those who want to know the correct pronunciation it is "gay-ho-eye", named after Russell Guého. See Lowrie and Conran's paper Byblis guehoi (Byblidaceae), a new species from the Kimberley, Western Australia Telopea 12(1) 23–29.

I would just go with Cindy's recommendations. Her pictures speak for themselves.
 
  • #34
Av8tor1 said:
They could very well all be correct...

But if Cindy told me to sing yankee doodle dandy while I applied the GA3, I'd be singing yankee doodle dandy

(just my humble opinion)

So Jim, your "1 gram of GA3 and dissolve it in 200 mL of purified water" will be perfect. And "50 mL centrifuge tubes...0.25 grams for each tube" will be brilliant! Anything a little less will work fine too...just don't go over 1000ppm for the Byblis seeds.

I think she is using 900ppm if i understood her reply to ya correctly
Click to expand...

I highly respect you, Cindy, Warren, Sheila, Brian Barnes, etc.... I'm just not at all sure who's got the right or best guidance. The one thing about Cindy is that she is using the 90 % GA3 and mine is the 20 %. So if I am understnding this corretly, my more dilute stuff should be the higher ppm? to compensate for being only 20 %?
 
  • #35
I understand, but since yours is 20% if you mix one gram to 200ml wont that be 1000ppm?

Mixing something that is 1/5th the strength with only 1/5th the water should bring the final product it back to it's full strength me thinks.
 
  • #36
Av8tor1 said:
I understand, but since yours is 20% if you mix one gram to 200ml wont that be 1000ppm?

Mixing something that is 1/5th the strength with only 1/5th the water should bring the final product it back to it's full strength me thinks.
Click to expand...

Correct. The 20% GA3 has only 1/5th the GA3 by weight of the 100% GA3 powder. It has been "cut" with something probably to make it easier to dissolve in water. If the person selling the kits cuts it himself it could also be to stretch his profits. Who knows what it's been cut with.

So either use 5x the amount of GA3-20 powder or 5x less the amount of water to make an equivalent concentration of solution vs using the GA3-90 powder.

If you had enough seed you could try different ppm to see which appears to give the best results. It's difficult to gauge results from different growers.
 
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  • #37
Hi Jim,

Using 1000ppm, the germination rates for the 'Goliath' x guehoi hybrid seeds varied. So far, I've got about 70% while a friend had about 25%. However, the B. guehoi seeds had a 100% germination rate for him. ???

If you would like to try different concentrations of GA3, I'll suggest B. guehoi seeds instead of the hybrid. :0o:
 
  • #38
From "Brian's article on the ICPS website,

"However, I've been most successful using a 24 hour soak with 10 PPM of gibberellic acid. I use petri dishes, with seeds folded up in a paper towel, but any dish or container will suffice. Make sure the paper towel is soaked really well with the GA3 solution. You'll notice a purple staining from the seeds on the paper after the solution is applied. After soaking for 24 hours, sprinkle the seeds on top of your growing media and make sure you keep the soil wet and in the 70°F to 85°F (20°C to 30°C) temperature range with good direct light for at least 8-10 hours a day. The main germination usually occurs within 2-4 weeks, with some taking longer."

I use 1000ppm for 24hrs based on the recommendation from BCP but got my GA3 from rarexoticseeds. Both of their GA3 are 90%. Germination usually occurs within 2-5 days.

That is likely the difference between using 10ppm and 1000ppm i.e. speed. But does it affect the rate, as in the percentage? ???
 
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  • #39
I've seen the article in my searches. Just trying to be careful not to make it too little or too much. who knows if the GA3 I have is still potent... thanks for your help with the "can of worms".
 
  • #40
Enough is enough! This is what I did at work: In light of the fact that the guidance I have been receiving has varied from as little as 10 ppm concentration of GA3 to 1000 ppm, I decided to go with what will be ~500 ppm. I weighed out ~0.125 grams of GA3 and mixed it with purified water. I sonicated it get it into solution. Of course there's no guarantee that the GA3 that I have is still potent...

FWIW, I weighed the scoop on the balance and 0.07451 grams, as opposed to the 0.076 from the chart.
 
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