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A Drosera - Byblis Predicament.

  • Thread starter Acro
  • Start date
A Drosera - Byblis Predicament

I got some seeds that were supposed to be a Byblis species. Later, I was told they were a Drosera species, by someone more experienced in seed ID than me. I figured I'd just plant them in a 3-way split pot (think pie chart) with some D. tokaiensis and D. capensis seeds.

So a couple months have gone by and I have D. tokaiensis growing in their partition, D. capensis growing in their partition, but nothing is growing in the Byblis/Drosera area. This gave me two ideas. The first, is that these are Drosera seeds, but they just need time to sprout and I should wait. The second is . . . what if they are actually Byblis seeds? If they are Byblis, they need a "smoke treatment" in order to sprout.

So here are the questions . . .
Can I do the "smoke treatment" (pot in plastic bag with smoke) with a bunch of sundew seedlings in the pot? Or will the smoke harm the seedlings?
Or if I wait for all the sundew seed to sprout, and remove them from the pot, will the Byblis seeds still be viable (and treatable with the "smoke method") after sitting in moist substrate for several months?

Note:
The "smoke treatment" I'm refereeing to, is one of the methods suggested in The Savage Garden by Peter D'Amato. I chose this one because it would be easiest for me. However, instead of a lit cigarette (as suggested in the book) I would use smoldering incense.


How would you deal with this Drosera-Byblis predicament?
 
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Can't advise on the smoke treatment. However, if the seeds were Byblis liniflora, then it could very well be that they are being slow to germinate. I've had seedlings of B.liniflora pop 6months-1yr after having been sown.

The seeds of B.liniflora are easy to tell from Drosera seeds .... they are a lot bigger than typical dust speck sized Drosera seeds.
 
It may be that you just need higher temperatures to convince those seeds to germinate. Annual Byblis species do like it hot, and so does the D. indica complex which is the group of species I'd expect to most likely be mistaken for Byblis.
 
Instead of smoking the pot, you might want to try making some smoke water, and dump that onto your pot when just a bit warm. It is messy and stinky, but might be worth a try. You never know.
 
Can't advise on the smoke treatment. However, if the seeds were Byblis liniflora, then it could very well be that they are being slow to germinate. I've had seedlings of B.liniflora pop 6months-1yr after having been sown.
The seeds of B.liniflora are easy to tell from Drosera seeds .... they are a lot bigger than typical dust speck sized Drosera seeds.
If they are B.liniflora, they would be fine sitting in damp substrate, with out any treatment and still be able to sprout? Is B. liniflora a common species? I've really never looked into Byblis so I have no idea. The seeds did look a little larger than Drosera that I'm used to (note: my sundew seed experience is limited) but they were still small and I didn't think much about it.


It may be that you just need higher temperatures to convince those seeds to germinate. Annual Byblis species do like it hot, and so does the D. indica complex which is the group of species I'd expect to most likely be mistaken for Byblis.
The only problem is that I have sundews growing and I'd be worried they would suffer from the temp increase. Will annual Byblis and D. indica complex stay viable until I remove all the sprouting sundews over the next couple months?

Instead of smoking the pot, you might want to try making some smoke water, and dump that onto your pot when just a bit warm. It is messy and stinky, but might be worth a try. You never know.
I'd be fine with that, I just worry it would negatively affect the other Drosera already growing in the shared pot. The top is partitioned off, but they all share the same growing medium under the first half inch under the substrate.
 
If they are B.liniflora, they would be fine sitting in damp substrate, with out any treatment and still be able to sprout? Is B. liniflora a common species?

I have never treated my B. liniflora seeds. The ones I recently noticed sprouting have definitely spent a lot of time on damp substrate.

Yes, liniflora is common, probably the most common species of Byblis.


The only problem is that I have sundews growing and I'd be worried they would suffer from the temp increase. Will annual Byblis and D. indica complex stay viable until I remove all the sprouting sundews over the next couple months?

Imagine that would depend somewhat on the dew in question as well as how hot you're talking. My dews summer on my balcony in full sun from around 8am-2pm. My balcony gets hot enough to blister one's feet. However, I am much further north than you are and that can make a difference.
 
Barry Rice and some others say that Byblis gigantea and some of the other species require some treatment to germinate. Most do not, especially liniflora, I imagine, and is said to be the most common. Certainly if you get some in trade, they will most likely be liniflora. Would some sort of treatment help to speed things up? Not sure, but some swear by G3, some say baloney. I have on occasion dropped Byblis in a dilute bleach water solution to remove the outer coating. They seem to germinate more readily that way, though I can't really quantify that. But if as it is said, there are germination inhibitors in the seed coat getting rid of it may help. Maybe leaving the seeds on damp media just weather that coat away prior to sprouting. I doubt the smoke water thing would harm the dews especially if you let it cool off first. If you try it, wait a couple of days, then flush the pot well to get rid of any leftover ash and whatnot.
 
Most Byblis require some sort of treatment to germinate, only B. liniflora is the exception (though I get better germination after soaking them in water for 20 minutes or so, as they still bleed off a visible chemical like the others do when bleach or smokewater treated; that is the point of the treatment by the way, the outer seed coat contains an inhibiting hormone that's removed by the chemical scarification and usually seen as a purple dye bleeding off soaking seeds). GA3 has yet to help me when I've tried on seeds, though could be the chemical's age or a concentration issue.
As Byblis seeds in general should not be able to mistake for any Drosera seeds (the reticulated pattern of the seed coat is quite unlike anything Drosera have, and visible to the naked eye, and the seeds are larger than just about all except some of the really large indica seeds which are elongate and nearly smooth by comparison), you should be able to tell the difference from a close glance or with a small magnifying glass if really necessary.
 
Thanks all! This has been very informative!

In a couple weeks I'm going to try the smoke water method on the pot. Hope that it will inspire the unidentified seeds to sprout, and hopefully not harm the D. tokaiensis and D. capensis seedlings.

Thanks again! :D
 
  • #10
It seems they just needed time. I didn't treat them with anything and three plants sprouted up. Hopefully more will follow.

Check out the photos and let me know if you're thinking Drosera or Byblis, probably too soon to tell the exact species:

Camera wouldn't really focus on all three so I circled them in purple.
full


Focused on the one closest to me.
full

full


What do you think?
 
  • #11
I'm pretty sure those are Drosera seedlings.
 
  • #12
100% certain those are Drosera
 
  • #13
Paricularly, D. indica complex seedlings. Byblis seedlings have glandular cotyledons that look no different from true leaves.
 
  • #14
Thanks for the IDs you three!
hcarlton, what leads you to think D. indica complex? My sundew seedling experience is very limited, I'd like to know what to look for. :)
 
  • #15
1. Byblis seeds are tiny, but still larger than most drosera seeds. Do you remember that the seeds you suspect to be byblis were larger than the other drosera seeds?

2. It is unusual to get byblis seeds in the quantity of droseras and if you got them, they are likely to be byblis liniflora - which don't need any special treatment to germinate and for me, usually germinate in a week or so - months is unusual. Even the ones that do need special treatment will usually eventually germinate even if not at the same time - but I accept this can take some time.

3. I imagine you can still do the smoke treatment if you are able to do it carefully without a) burning your pot or the seeds that are germinating next to these or b) burying the sowed seeds

You should probably examine the surface of the media to make sure the seeds don't have fungus/gnats on them or suchlike.

On the off-chance that you do have seeds for one of the other byblis species: One possibility that occurs to me is seeing the surface of the pot very carefully to see if you can spot the seeds (this is easier on dead sphagnum than other potting mixes), but the seeds are large enough that a sharp eye can spot them if they aren't buried. If you can spot them, it is worth a gamble to pick them out and soak them in some dilute bleach for a very short while - 30s? (don't wait for them to change color to grey - they have already been soaking for months) and rinse them and put them back.

If this works, you should have germination within the next week.

Or you may have drosera seeds of uknown species and unknown germination time or stratification needs. Not much you can do about that except wait and watch.

That is all I can think of.

Edit: Oops. Some problem with my browser. The whole page hadn't loaded and I didn't see your update.

They could be byblis or drosera indica complex. I am not able to make out from your photos, but not so sure they aren't byblis like others are saying. You may want to check against these photos of byblis germination I'd put up.
 
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  • #16
Vidyut, they are absolutely NOT Byblis seedlings, the non-glandular cotyledons are quite visible and the leaves have tapered tips and are visibly flat rather than the abrupt end and cylindrical leaves that Byblis have.

Acro: there are almost no other Drosera that start off immediately with elongate leaves like that, and especially not with tapered ends. Even the filiformis complex start off with rather blunt, nearly rounded leaves as their first growth. Additionally, if the seeds were large and rounded enough to be possibly confused with Byblis, there aren't many groups with seeds like that either.
 
  • #17
Vidyut, they are absolutely NOT Byblis seedlings, the non-glandular cotyledons are quite visible and the leaves have tapered tips and are visibly flat rather than the abrupt end and cylindrical leaves that Byblis have.

Just saying that I am not able to be certain. In any case, now that they are germinated, we'll know for certain soon enough I guess. Both Byblis and Drosera indica complex are enthusiastic growers.
 
  • #18
Thanks for the replies you two. This thread becomes more and more informational for me! I hope it's of interest to others as well. :D

there are almost no other Drosera that start off immediately with elongate leaves like that, and especially not with tapered ends. Even the filiformis complex start off with rather blunt, nearly rounded leaves as their first growth. Additionally, if the seeds were large and rounded enough to be possibly confused with Byblis, there aren't many groups with seeds like that either.

That's cool, that the sprouts are likely in the Drosera indica complex, however it seems problematic.
I read through this: International Carnivorous Plant Society - Growing Drosera indica complex and I have no idea how I'm supposed to determine proper growing conditions. It seems that they can be from one extreme to another, and proper ID would be needed to know proper care.

I currently have them growing in a split pot (as mentioned before) with D. tokaiensis growing in one partition and D. capensis in the other. They are all growing in substrate where the top layer (quarter inch?) is coco fiber and under that is LFS mixed with perlite. It seems ok for now, but how well do Drosera indica complex plants take to root disturbance during repotting?

Also, I count 6 supposed Drosera indica complex seedlings now. :D
 
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  • #19
So these seeds were labeled as Byblis, correct? They'll most likely be D. finlaysoniana, and a possibility of D. indica. The rest of the species are uncommon enough that people wouldn't mislabel them like that.
 
  • #20
D. serpens is more likely than indica, though you have to look closely at the glands to tell them apart; most likely chance though is finlaysoniana (ironically, the one I can't keep alive long enough to get seeds).
For growing conditions though, overall the indica complex all like the same thing: lots and LOTS of light, a fair amount of food, and soil moisture tends to vary but most species aren't actually picky about it or the soil composition (though I tend to go with sandy and relatively moist like most of their habitats). Generally, they hate being disturbed after they've been growing for any length of time, so don't repot them.
 
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