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  • #101
Hi Tamlin

The pic of D. glabripes looks like D. glabripes! though my plants are lighter coloured.

Where's Stefan?
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??? Keep your D. coccicaulis plants as coccicaulis. There are fairly significant differences in flower structure between venusta and coccicaulis. I'll dig out the article Rob Gibson wrote. I have clones of this plant from Stefan which are slightly different in colouration to mine so when they flower I will compare them. Does anyone have D. venusta seed for trade?
 
  • #102
G'Day everyone,
I have a couple of questions regarding 2 South African species which I hope that someone can help me out with.
Firstly, I have a D. pauciflora which is producing its first flowerscape since I have had the plant. Does this species elf-pollinate or must I pollinate the plant myself.
Secondly, I have some seeds of D. cuneifolia and was wondering the best time to sow these and if anyone recommends pretreatment of any kind. Bear in mind that I am in Australia and it is the middle of winter at the moment.
This is my first post on the forum and I look forward to posting many more.
Thanks in advance,

Sean.
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  • #103
Welcome to the Forum Seandew (clever name&#33
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! I hope someone might assist you with your questions as I have no experience with either of these species.

Hopefully Greg will have something to offer you regarding this since he is in your neck of the woods.
 
  • #104
Greg, try posting the trade request for D. venusta on the trade forum, you might get more responses. BTW Robert felt my D. "coccicaulis" plants were D. "venusta". I remain fairly unconvinced that there is a significant difference, and feel these are local variations of D. natalensis (there are many such) and these names are used to differentiate them instead of using the location data (which would be far more useful). From my impressions, there are differences in appearance that are worth seggregating, and this is another case where registering such as cultivars would be a great service to the CP community.

Thanks for confirmingthe D. glabripes, I was sure this was true species. The taxonomy on this one is fairly straight forward.

Anyone interested in the Robert Gibson article mentioned by Greg please email me and I can help you out with that.
tamlindd@yahoo.com
 
  • #105
I agree Mr T that location data would be of great relevance for the natalensis complex but we have two problems with this. There is oftem more than one collection made from a location ie (shire or county) that can not be elaborated on when distributing seed and secondly people like WAs prominent CP "expert" distribute plants/seed with bogus location data to protect location details for various reasons. Unless the collector can correctly identify a plant, there is mass confusion created and bogus names become species names and people end up growing rosetted things called D. affinis!
I collected something recently from somewhere which roughly fits the description of something but differs in significant ways from the type. If I plan to send seed of this to people I will simply call it D. aff. whatever. I wont give location details untill it is studied further and if required a formal description given. I think the self proclaimed sundew god experienced frustrations with Drosera ID/distribution/location info/articles. I wish there was an easy way to avoid it.
 
  • #106
Sean

Good luck with D. pauciflora. It is difficult to self but you must do it yourself. Just move polen as often as you can and cross your fingers. Do you know what colour it is? Where did it come from? Would you like to trade a leaf cutting? Where in Aus are you?

Plant your D. ascendens seed now. It should germinate immediately. No special treatment is required though smoke treatment may increase germination

Thanks
Greg
 
  • #107
Oh, by the way,

I hybridised D. coccicaulis and natalensis last year. Plants will flower this season. They are quite strong growers so it will be interesting to see how big they get.

D. madagascariensis x aliciae (plains or dry form) is going to be a beauty! Very fast growing. Plants are almost 3 feet across! Well not quite but I think it will be a good one!

Greg
 
  • #108
Hi,

The first picture shows a leaf of my Drosera coccicaulis and the second of Drosera venusta.





Greg, do you have pictures of your plants ? I am highly interested in seeing some of your plants.

Pleae take a look to the pictures of Drosera natalensis, i posted in this thread (first post on page4) as wll. I would also like to discuss this species. Is anyone here growing a Drosera natalensis, that fits exactly the published Description ?

Christian
 
  • #109
How hard is pauciflora to grow from leaf cuttings??

If it is easy I'll be around at your house before you know it Seandew!! (and to think I just emailed you to find out your Nic!&#33
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I sowed my "cunifolia" seeds today, half with a 48hr GA treatment. I will be inbterested to see the differences in germination.

George
 
  • #110
Greg,

Those are some very good points, and of course you are right: even from a single collection site there can be great variability within the populations.  Even the "type" collection is only a part of the picture.  Without pouring over herbarium sheets there is little hope of understanding what "typical" implies.

Christian, this problem exactly highlights the difficulty you are having in trying to match your (or others) plants of D. natalensis to an "exact fit".  I remain unconvinced that this is possible regarding the South African species.  I expressed my own frustrations in this regard to Dr. Schlauer in trying to ascertain what a typical specimen of D. natalensis would be.  He told me the populations in Madagascar are likely to be as pure an example as can be had.

I just want to add that the use of "aff." is a very good descriptive tool. I have so many variations of D. dielsiana that I have taken to labeling most of them in this fashion. With every variation I grow comes a greater certainty that no private growers can claim to have a "true" form. Even those who review extensive sheets of collected material are often hard pressed in this regard: Key descriptions are based on extensive review of the field material, and this sort of experience collectors will never be able to access, not if we were to grow 300 plants! Use they keys as a guide, certainly but remember that the variability factor will always enter the equation.

I recently asked Robert how one determines the most significant focus on these species: is it the styles, stipules or seeds? Is there some sort of point value assigned to these qualities the total of which adds up to a reasonably certain determination? His reply was that he too struggles to understand this same issue.

"Variation in D. dielsiana, as with many other rosulate species of sundews shows how little we still know and understand species' limits and the relative weight of various factors. Clearly cytology data is not sufficient to explain most of this variation, and it now appears that even genetic sequencing may not be the great clarifier either given it is more than simple presence or absence of a gene that determines genotype, for it is how genes interact that morphology is also determined. Detailed field studies are needed of plants in the wild throughout their range to get an understanding and context of the variation we see in listed clones on innumerable seed lists. That many names attached to these seeds are often erroneous makes it even more challenging to understand what is going on when basing any study on cultivated material."

" I feel that the taxonomic weight of some characters has been overplayed and that they vary greatly in accordance with only minor changes to the genotype (but have yet to test this hypothesis)". (Robert Gibson Pers. Comm.)"

A "sticky" problem to be sure!
 
  • #111
D. pauciflora leaf cuttings are very easy as are the related D. trinervia and cistiflora. Just pull rosette leaves frm the plant and cover the petiole with a little soil.

I'lll dig up some pics this weekend. orry I can't do it any earlier.

Greg
 
  • #112
Hi George- aka binataboy.

By the sounds of things the D. pauciflora should be relatively easy to propogate from leaf cuttings. Whenever you would like a leaf or two come and get em. By the way, I'm working on Friday so we may have to hold back a bit on the filedtrip.

Regards,

Sean.
 
  • #113
Hi seandew, I have my scissors in my hand!

So Friday is off, and I just got my car fixed!!
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George
 
  • #114
Regarding D. pauciflora leaf cuttings, it's best not to cut them off as you require as much of the petiole as possible. Just grab lower leaves from opposite sides of thye rosette and pull gently!

Greg
 
  • #115
Flowers of Fernkloof

Although this is supposed to be a gallery of D.cistiflora in its natural habitat, the second row and first column/third row appears to be D.glabripes.
 
  • #116
Beautiful photos, and I agree the plants you mention sure look like D. glabripes to me as well.
 
  • #117
G'day all,

I'm sorry I've not got back with info on D. coccicaulis. I'm busy again :-( It seems to have gone very quiet here anyway.
The only info I could find was the ACPS article that Tamlin mentioned earlier. Perhaps the information further to this that I thought I had was from pers comm with Robert G.

Whatever the Drosera is, my plants are stem forming at about 10cm tall. If there is a little time tomorrow I'll get some pics. How big does D. venusta get?

For those interested, D. aliciae x collinsiae looks like it may get to flowering size this season. I have had no luck with any other collinsiae hybrids. I hope to cross D. burkeana with D. madagascariensis this season to see if it looks anything like D. collinsiae. Has anyone tried this? Has anyone even been able to get these two to flower at the same time? I may try some sort of shock treatment to get my D. madagascariensis to flower early. Has anyone experimented with shock treatment of any species? I think heat and light may be the go.

Thanks
Greg
 
  • #118
Hi folks
D. admiralibis...did we ever come to a conclusion on it's species status?  Greg mentioned something about documentation supporting this but I can't seem to find any (I think I'm digging in the wrong places).  Also, can anyone post any pics showing admiralibis and cuinefolia side by side?

Greg, I'm fascinated by you hybridization attempts.  I'd love to see pics of the parents and offspring.  Also if any of these hybrids are self fertile are they stable?  It may be germane to the discussion of keying south african drosera if some of these plants are freely hybridizing and confusing taxonomist everywhere.  Also, I'd love to know what degree of heterozygosity these plants exhibit...I have not grown enough seedlings to know from experiance.  

Peace
Damon
 
  • #119
I don't have an image of D.cuneifolia (my plants are only seedlings) but here is my D. admirabilis.

Drosera%20admirabilis.jpg


This plant is less than an inch across and three years old.

Sean.
 
  • #120
Sean,

Thanks for the great pic.   I wish that my plant looked yours but it doesn't.  My plant is about 1 1/2 inches in diameter and has is longer leaves relative to its width, like a isosceles triangle.  The only think my plant has in common with yours is that it is green with scarlet tentacles...so I guess I'll have to wait until I can post a pic to Id it
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Another victim of unintentioned mislabeling

Damon
 
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