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Forget the Precogs, they've got Recog

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In the Sci-Fi world there are the precogs who can detect a crime before it happens by telepathy or some other technique (see Minority Report), in today's world they have a technology that they claim will read your mind's I and prove whether or not you did it. When a co-worker told me about this I was skeptical (hoping he was pulling leg) but I found a copy of the report:
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What's scary about this to me is that I believe the process of the recitation of the details of the crime dramatically increases the subjects mental imaging capacity, thereby recreating the event being described in the subjects mind as if it had actually been commited by them. This mental imagining is desired by the inventors of this tech to their theory of proving guilt. I believe this would supply the "proof of guilt" in almost anyone with an active minds eye / imagination. When I read or hear a description I can create very vivid imagery as much as actually seeing it before me, the more I think of it the more vivid it becomes. I've heard it said that this is because I'm an artist and have trained myself to "see" my imagination in order to put images on paper or shape them in clay. But I've often heard people use the expression "I saw it in my minds eye after hearing about it" so I don't think I'm special in this at all. The only difference to me of imagining something and creating it is that I'm continually training my hands to move in accordance with my imagination or perception. Which is never a perfect translation, which I think is why artists secretly hate their own work and see only the flaws and hope nobody else will.

But back on track... To me this tech is scary stuff and could be easily misused to control a populace whether it works correctly or not. It seems analogous to judging you as a "witch" by tying your hands to your ankles and throwing you in a lake - if you drown you're innocent if you float we'll burn you. In this brain scan scenario if you're mindless and have no imagination power (dead inside, like a good little servile robot the govmt wants you to be) you might get qualified as innocent but the docs might also declare you clinically brain dead.

If this stuff does work (and doesn't pick up false imaginings that I think it will) but only "reports" real thoughts, even ones not on the "front" on your mind, how long before we are living in Orwell's 1984? And we must get scanned periodically to make sure our thoughts are not "subversive" in any fashion to the people who currently decide what subversive might be. Thus we could truly be arrested for "thought crimes"...

What do you all think?
 
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What do you all think?

Dont or they will find out.

This technology seems to me like a very bad idea and easily fooled. I imagine anyone skilled in meditation which clears your mind of all thoughts and distractions could easily fool this technology. Plus as you have stated you could detect false images creating the illusion of guilt when one is in fact innocent.

Whats next we start scanning people to find out who might commit a crime and then lock them up to prevent it. Even our own thoughts arent safe anymore.
 

Finch

Whats it to ya?
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Or a national DNA database where the public's DNA data is stored to help in ID in case of a crime, even your DNA even if you have no record. Wait, Britain is already doing something like that...

and... *looks at swords new avatar*

*flee*

;)
 
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Yeah Ktulu, I didn't think of that. Doing some zazen might give you the flat line brain scan too, you might not have to be clinically brain dead. Though it might be sort of difficult to get "in the zone" with cops threatening to torture you if the brain scan doesn't come up with anything... At least I'd find it a lot more challenging! lol!
Have they ever done EEG studies to check the signals of someone deep in meditation to see what's still going on aside from first hand reports of an individual? Does all activity truly cease or does it only seem that way to the conscious mind?

I guess the only way I'd trust the tech is to try it in a non-threatening situation. Even then, if it works correctly, that's pretty scary for the state to have at their disposal, if it doesn't work but provides false readings that's also scary.

If I were to be optimistic about it, I could say it would be very nice to have a brain scan machine to put on where I could imagine a painting in some style and it would simply materialize itself in photoshop with no mechanical manipulation of my hands. Or I could imagine a sculpture and it would form out of polygons in some prototyping software and be printed on a 3D CNC Printer. That would be a "non-evil" use for this sort of tech that I could definitely get behind.

(BTW: new avatar is from The Big Lebowski incase nobody knows that movie. lol! ;) )
 
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Or a national DNA database where the public's DNA data is stored to help in ID in case of a crime, even your DNA even if you have no record. Wait, Britain is already doing something like that...

and... *looks at swords new avatar*

*flee*

;)

Yeah well most states in the US keep blood samples from all babys born in hospitals. They collect the samples to records on genetic diseases yet they dont dispose of them after they check for these diseases. The card they are on have the babys name, date of birth and blood sample which can be use for DNA identification etc. Yet somehow this is allowed and no one seems to raise any qualms about it. So we are going down that road, just give us time. I am sure they will use the threat of terrorism to help push through more laws to remove more of our rights.

And whats wrong with the Dude. He just wants a clean rug.
 
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Or a national DNA database where the public's DNA data is stored to help in ID in case of a crime, even your DNA even if you have no record. Wait, Britain is already doing something like that...

and... *looks at swords new avatar*

*flee*

;)

Arent the states starting to do the same, with out the knowledge of the parents?
 
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The Big Lebowski is the story of my dad - in a manner of speaking of course. When I saw the movie way back when, I couldn't believe it wasn't my old man playing the dude, they just used a time machine to get a young version of him and changed a few of his his wacky adventures to create that specific plot. I couldn't wait to show him the movie when I got it. Now in his old age my dad looks pretty much like Karl Marx - just a bit more grizzled. Still the same old "dude" though, crazy Nam Vet friends, Credence, cardigan, rug, and all. lol! :D

I must admit I'm divided on the DNA thing. I think it could be good to have a child's DNA with the number of abductions and murders going on. However I never trust the state to "only" do what they say they're going to. I think the family should hold onto those records. I don't know what they would do with your DNA, other than frame you - which is bad enough. Give them time I suppose and they'll come up with something even more interesting!

Is it weird that when we imagine things the government might do, it's only bad things? lol!
 
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Is it weird that when we imagine things the government might do, it's only bad things? lol!

No, Donny, these men are nihilists, there is nothing to be afraid of. LOL

We only assume that because I cant think of a single instance where a government took it upon itself to gather information on people and it was actually used to help them.

I agree the families should have the cards containing the DNA or should at least have to give consent for the gov't to keep it on file. As for DNA for abductions families will likely have pleanty of things with DNA on it like toothbrush or hair brush to get an ID.
 
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In the book "The World's Weirdest Tattoos" is a tat of Walter wielding a crowbar and in medieval script the colorful sentence: "Do you see what happens Larry, when you .... " I can't post the rest of it here cos of the younger members who aren't supposed to see R rated movies & language - I love that scene! I even wrote an essay entitled "How to offend on three different psychological levels" defending the end of that sentence as the current top of modern insults when deconstructed and analyzed. Complete with footnotes & flimsy research to support my premise, it ends with a plea to the studious Cynical reader to come up with something better or rather, worse. lol! I think I'll pass on having it tattooed on me though! :D

Back on the topic of the brain scan for a sec, this story is from India, I wonder how far they are along at experimenting with it here?
 
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at this point I dont think this technology would hold up in our court system. Both of us came up with ways to create reasonable doubt, plus the brain is not understood well enough that this wouldnt come under intense scrutiny by any half decent lawyer.

What I wonder is if you convince yourself you had a false memory of you doing it or not doing it how would this effect the scan. Would this show up
 
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What I wonder is if you convince yourself you had a false memory of you doing it or not doing it how would this effect the scan. Would this show up
Like the memories "uncovered" during the Satanic Ritual Abuse / Repressed Memory scare of the 1980/1990s? Where no bodies of sacrificed babies or worldwide conspiracy of satanic cults was uncovered by any impartial investigator, yet there were mountains of books written by evangelical therapists "finding" all these hidden memories in people. The more someone denied it happened the more gruesome and fantastical it really must have been and the more repressed the memories must be. It gave Geraldo something to put on TV and me something to read. But it seemed to be believed by the therapists and sensationalist media more than the actual "victims"... lol!

I suppose if one truly believes anything, be it "false", implanted / imprinted / conditioned, or self imposed, the brainscan could be tricked. This describes the ways we acquire all of our beliefs - beliefs don't drop out of the sky like snowflakes. Believing a "lie" or a "wrong" belief is no different than believing the "truth" or a "correct" belief. It affects the believers mind the same if it has been made true in the mind of the believer. Lie detector tests are cheatable if one has control over their nervous system, which is controlled in large part (maybe even entirely), by the belief system. Do any of us think Bush or any politician would fail a lie detector? I think they'd pass with flying colors - there's a lot can be said for self delusion to the point of believing your own PR (especially when it's your job). Mark Twain said "Faith is believing what you know ain't so. " But I think that what you believe makes it so, as far as your own nervous system (mindbody connection) even if it's not so for anyone else operating with their own nervous system.

Say for instance, you believe spiders are all out get you, you're going to react in a very excited fashion when one comes walking by, while everyone else watches you wig and ignores the apocalyptic threat of the humble daddy long legs. A paramedic & hardcore punk guitar player friend of mine is mortally afraid of spiders from the time our teachers "lost" tarantula made it's dramatic reappearance by climbing up over him once, way back in 1st grade. He can handle bleeding, screaming, gunshot victims at work and perform onstage but a spider nearby makes him become a frighted 7 year old frozen in panic. I'll never forget the time we were at the studio and his band was recording a 7" for my old label and during a break a spider somehow chose him to drop from the ceiling in front of. None of us could believe his reaction was not a put on until the spider was removed from the area and he explained how it went back to Mrs. Knights tarantula. That's an example of how a belief (spiders = evil) can affect the entire nervous system. All beliefs seem to work in precisely this same way whether it be a phobia or adamantine certainty on something.

I guess in my own rambling way I'm saying if we can fool ourselves into believing everything that we already believe, we can probably do so with a belief / memory we originally believed was untrue / incorrect, so that it's not detectable by a machine. Our minds / beliefs / memories are highly modifiable if we know the techniques. Sadly many people do not take the time to investigate this - I look at it as a form of consciousness self defense. If you understand how others try to impose beliefs on us, we can resist being unwittingly modified by outside forces and be our own modifiers.

Rescources:
Neuropolitics RA Wilson & Tim Leary
Prometheus Rising RA Wilson
Programming the Human Bio Computer John Lilly
Quantum Psychology RA Wilson
 
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