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Sir Butch - God of all Heliamphora ... :hail:

Many thanks for the detailed 'How-to' for new Heli's (now in one place).

It works! :beer:
 
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Thanks Av... very useful. The growing medium for Heliamphora is very interesting and I suspect dependant to a certain degree on the growing conditions. I personally use a 1:1 LFS/perlite mix and have no issues with it; however, I know some European growers use peat/perlite mixes with great success. Last I read, Andreas Wistuba was using Sphagnum moss, perlite, a little peatmoss and had started to add Aggrofoam. He stated that the peatmoss enhanced colouration under his growing conditions.
 
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...however, I know some European growers use peat/perlite mixes with great success. Last I read, Andreas Wistuba was using Sphagnum moss, perlite, a little peatmoss and had started to add Aggrofoam. He stated that the peatmoss enhanced colouration under his growing conditions.
I used a peat-based media with my 1st Heli (H. minor) and it barely grew at all for over a year (1-2 pitchers max). Two other divisions (from same plant) in media without peat grew very well. Although obviously not a controlled experiment with any true validity, I see little reason to add any peat to my Heli media now... ???
 
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Ron, thanks for the kind words my friend.... for you are the Kwisatz Haderach!

Thanks Av... very useful. The growing medium for Heliamphora is very interesting and I suspect dependant to a certain degree on the growing conditions. I personally use a 1:1 LFS/perlite mix and have no issues with it; however, I know some European growers use peat/perlite mixes with great success. Last I read, Andreas Wistuba was using Sphagnum moss, perlite, a little peatmoss and had started to add Aggrofoam. He stated that the peatmoss enhanced colouration under his growing conditions.

Carl, thanks and I agree!!

I would go as far as saying it is highly dependent on growing conditions. Personally, my best growth performance was with Cypress bark based mixes. But those required multiple daily waterings. That got old, really quick too LOL

In my application, LFS and Perlite alone doesnt perform that well for me. This is especially true with my large helis..... but I know many who would use nothing else.

My intent was to give the newbie enough basic knowledge of my methods to be successful without information overload.

IMHO the 1:1:1 LFS/Perlite/APS is practically bullet proof. The APS maintains a nearly perfect moisture level that even someone with the most basic level of experience is assured success.

Most of us old timers know that what works best for any one person is highly dependent on many variables... Watering routines, humidity levels, ventilation, light, fertilizer routines etc.

But I thought that was better left to a more advanced "How To"

:)
 
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JB_OrchidGuy

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OMG Butch!!! That is my favorite book and movie! I have the new and old versions. DVD and VHS for the old. Old oen the best!! The rest of the books were awesome too! Fliping awesome!

I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain

---------- Post added 09-30-2011 at 12:02 AM ---------- Previous post was 09-29-2011 at 11:59 PM ----------

Zeolite! Lets clean out the radioativity int he APS too! LMAO It worked in chirnoble!! And sold not to protect agaisnt the fallout from the melted down reactors in japan.
 
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The APS maintains a nearly perfect moisture level that even someone with the most basic level of experience is assured success.
Sadly, I have never managed to find APS in Europe. I used to use Seramis, which had a similar effect, but that is increasingly difficult to obtain in the UK.

There is a laterite aquatic plant substrate available in the UK, which I supsect is similar to APS, but at ~£11 ($17.50) per 20 oz I think I'll give it a miss :)
 
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I always use for my old plant a peat vermiculite mixture (mixture WISTUBA advocated in its beginning), actually quite close to the substrates 'in situ'.

Now to the plants rather latest purchased ,the moss and perlite mixture (more hydroponic) ensuring long roots, but quite brittle and in my personal try impossible to repot in the first mixture.

I use in place of cypress bark , pouzzolane

very very interessant this trichoderma utilisation .

for me the laterite is not present on the top of the tepui ( see here tepui vegetation and soil to "habitat" , in french excuse me)

jeff
 
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Sadly, I have never managed to find APS in Europe. I used to use Seramis, which had a similar effect, but that is increasingly difficult to obtain in the UK.

There is a laterite aquatic plant substrate available in the UK, which I supsect is similar to APS, but at ~£11 ($17.50) per 20 oz I think I'll give it a miss :)


Carl,

As far as I know, Laterite's main use is to slowly leach iron and other trace nutrients into planted aquariums. It was first popularized by the Dupla company back in the day. In addition to that use, I have experimented a little with laterite in some Ozzie drosera applications. APS on the other hand is designed to not leach anything. It's main qualities are it's inertness, resistance to compaction and water absorption (30% LHC). It is a thermally enhanced (@1000-1500 degrees F) clay mineral product that is very porous (0.45 cc/g) and chemically stable.

A product very similar to APS is sometimes used in kitty litter and some oil dry products. (But I don't recommend those for our use due to regional differences in formulations, additives and base minerals... )

Butch
 
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APS on the other hand is designed to not leech anything. It's main qualities are it's inertness, resistance to compaction and water absorption (30% LHC). It is a thermally enhanced (@1000-1500 degrees F) clay mineral product that is very porous (0.45 cc/g) and chemically stable.
OK, this sounds like Seramis.

A product very similar to APS is sometimes used in kitty litter and some oil dry products. (But I don't recommend those for our use due to regional differences in formulations, additives and base minerals... )
Much of this in the UK is Diatomaceous earth based, for which I have had negative results with as a planting material.

---------- Post added at 07:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:18 PM ----------

I always use for my old plant a peat vermiculite mixture (mixture WISTUBA advocated in its beginning), actually quite close to the substrates 'in situ'.
I'm wary of vermiculite as a CP growing medium component, with the exception of Mexican Pinguicula, as it can turn alkaline over time.
 
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Much of this in the UK is Diatomaceous earth based, for which I have had negative results with as a planting material.

Ahhhh just the opposite on this side of the pond... mostly clay based here, comparatively very little use of DE in these apps

After reading up on Seramis a little, it does sound very close...
 
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I use the vermiculite since several year in all the acid substrate plants , with no problem , it is a very good 'allegeant'

for me this one is more interessant than perlite with the blond peat.

inside le perlite: SiO2 ; AlO3 ; FeO3; MgO ;Na2O ; K2O ; CaO

vermiculite chimic formula : (H,Na,Ca1/2) (Mg Al2)Si4O10 (OH)2


have you try to heliamphora : granite or sandstone very presence up there on the tepui ?

jeff
 
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have you try to heliamphora : granite or sandstone very presence up there on the tepui ?
This is the reason for me being wary of vermiculite on acid loving plants: http://www.schundler.com/pH.htm, but maybe peat buffers it? I've never tried granite, but it would be easy for me to obtain as I live near Aberdeen, Scotland - which is known as the granite city. In fact, there is an abandoned granite quarry within a couple of miles from where I live.
 

gill_za

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Also maybe it will be interesting to someone.

I have made two pots one filled with 3:2 mix of perlite:vermiculite another 1:1 APS:Silica sand. APS is the same Butch used here, it did give off cloud of dust/vapor when first wet too!
All components were rinsed and runoff water inspected while rinsing (levels were ~5ppm for vermiculite, ~3ppm APS, 0-1ppm for sand and perlite)

Pots (4") were filled with mixes and washed again. So they stood like that slightly wet for two days. Today I flushed them and checked the runoff water (50mL each).
APS:Sand - 76ppm,
3Perlite:2vermiculite - 30ppm
My pot filled with pure perlite shows 5ppm. So it is coming from vermiculite and APS. Also APS pot gives off some sort of a metal oxide smell.
These were supposed to be media for pings :)

Are Heli's tolerant to such concentrations of minerals in the soil?
 
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@jeff: yes, sandstone and sand are definitely found on the tepuis...however, more likely than not, heliamphora do not grow on these stones directly since water more likely washes them away...however, they are able to establish themselves on lithophytic organisms such as lichen, moss, and various grasses. these plant islands function very similar to that of coral reefs, where plants try to compete for available space, and even try growing on top of each other in order to do so.

5718097042_dfc6c0d0cc_o.jpg
 
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Also maybe it will be interesting to someone.

I have made two pots one filled with 3:2 mix of perlite:vermiculite another 1:1 APS:Silica sand. APS is the same Butch used here, it did give off cloud of dust/vapor when first wet too!
All components were rinsed and runoff water inspected while rinsing (levels were ~5ppm for vermiculite, ~3ppm APS, 0-1ppm for sand and perlite)

Pots (4") were filled with mixes and washed again. So they stood like that slightly wet for two days. Today I flushed them and checked the runoff water (50mL each).
APS:Sand - 76ppm,
3Perlite:2vermiculite - 30ppm
My pot filled with pure perlite shows 5ppm. So it is coming from vermiculite and APS. Also APS pot gives off some sort of a metal oxide smell.
These were supposed to be media for pings :)

Are Heli's tolerant to such concentrations of minerals in the soil?

Most definitely, in fact i would be confident in saying they are not only tolerant, they thrive on it.... In addition, I root feed mine monthly. The only group that I have come across that really seemed to object to root feedings is Drosera.

Personally, I think the 0.00TDS goal is way overstated and probably very rarely (if ever) found in nature.....

Just my humble opinion though....... ummmm maybe ;)

Mineral Nutrition of Carnivorous Plants - A Review

The roots of carnivorous plants

(tangent for this thread but Pings and APS)

et.al.,
 
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Not a Number

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Even well rinsed APS seems to leave a white crystalline residue.

And, yes, Perlite is porous with open cells and closed cells in the nucleus. That's why Pyro cautions that it can act as a desiccant and should be avoided with tuberous Drosera :
http://www.perlite.it/en/what_s_Perlite.asp
The structure of the particles, clearly visible in some pictures (Pictures 2-5) collected with a scanning electron mycroscope (SEM), is characterized by open pores (small channels that form a thick network) and close pores (isolated cells and holes). The contemporary presence of those cheracteristics gives the rock an extremely high transpiring power (thanks to the open pores) and at the same time high impermeability to water inside the nucleus of the particle (due to the close pores).
http://www.perlite.it/img/sem1Big.jpg
http://www.perlite.it/img/sem2Big.jpg
http://www.perlite.it/img/sem3Big.jpg
http://www.perlite.it/img/sem4Big.jpg

The problem with Perlite is it can be 91-98% pores which is why it is so light.
 

Heli

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Is APS important? Cant find any place nearby that sells it...Can I just use LFS/perlite?
 
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