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Finch

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Funny, then that the NOAA is the athority on these things, being the top scientific body and all, and not the weather channel.

The brothers Island tuatara lives on a small rocky island- with black rocks. The recent population estimate has found 75% males in the most recent generations, related to rising temperatures. I think my argument is valid.
 

Clint

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Geez finch. You sure do take what I say the wrong way. No one ever said you should screw up your life. I just said I hope I die in the end of the world.
 

Finch

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Oh.


Well.... you are right. I do take what you say the wrong way alot. Its nothing against you... Sorry
 
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[b said:
Quote[/b] ]The brothers Island tuatara lives on a small rocky island- with black rocks. The recent population estimate has found 75% males in the most recent generations, related to rising temperatures. I think my argument is valid.

your using an example of a very primitive reptile, infact one of the last surviving examples of that particular family of reptiles(only 2 species currently), a critter that was for all intents and purposes destained to be wiped out even if man wasnt in the picture?

ok......lets run with that, being that New Zealand has only been around for about 25 million years cuts the time table a bit but i think i can work with it. these criters seemend to have survived just fine when there was a layer of ice over a mile thick where i am currently sitting makes me think they can handle temp swings just fine within reason as it was within the last 3 million years that it was the case. given their isolated location and general long lives current birth rates of 25% females or less probally have very little effect long term on the species and more than likely, infact almost definatly have happened in the past. i would think rats on the island are much more of a worry that current temps anyways.

using isolated populations on remote islands is a very poor way to attempt to win an arguement as these populations are considered fragile even without man in the picture.
 
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note: tuatara's have been around in one form or another for 200 million years........please see my crocodilian argument compined with the above. the species is destained for extinction but has survived just fine till the present except on remote islands
 

Ozzy

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[b said:
Quote[/b] ] every continent but antactica and europe and they have only been out of europe for maybe the last 5 million years

See, that's hard evidence. Global warming has alredy driven them from europe. Oh god it's already started.

angry.gif
 
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LMAO.......actually OZZY i would say thats global cooling that did it.......last major ice age was the final thing that kicked them out......global warming should let them repopulate Europe
tounge.gif
 

Ozzy

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Can you imagine crocodiles swiming in the Thames River in London? That would be so cool.


But if Global warming disrupts the jet stream then the UK would have an sub-artic climate.
 

Ozzy

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Speaking of crocodilians, how many diffent places do Alligators live and how many different spiecies of alligators are there.

I'll give a hint, the answer to both questions are the same.

And you're not allowed to answer rattler.
 

Finch

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[b said:
Quote[/b] ]isolated location and general long lives current birth rates of 25% females or less probally have very little effect long term on the species and more than likely, infact almost definatly have happened in the past. i would think rats on the island are much more of a worry that current temps anyways.

using isolated populations on remote islands is a very poor way to attempt to win an arguement as these populations are considered fragile even without man in the picture.
It is absolutely not, because isolated populans are exactly the ones threatened by global warming- human made or habitat island. Their fragility is their problem, and global warming could be a the thing that tips the balance.. Furthermore, you have no evedence that that would have very little affect on the species- experts say that it will absolutely have an effect.

Plus, crocadilians are primitive as well, so by defult you just destroyed your own argument.

Here's a history lesson: Tuataras have always thrived in NZ because they inhabited the main islands. This allowed them considerable range to move elsewhere when conditions were unfavorable. So they were NOT going to " critter that was for all intents and purposes destained to be wiped out even if man wasnt in the picture? ". Man caused them to be extinct on the main isles to begin with! They had planty of oppertunities to move to different habitats... there. The island populations are mear remminants of what was a poplation in the millions 300 years ago... so there we go, they were not going to go extinct because man was in the picture. If you don't know anything about tuataras, dont structure your agument about them.
 

Finch

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[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Tuatara once lived throughout the mainland of New Zealand but have survived in the wild only on 32 offshore islands. These islands are characteristically free of rodents and other introduced mammalian predators which are known to prey on eggs and young as well as compete for invertebrate food. The islands are usually occupied by colonies of breeding seabirds that contribute to the fertility and hence the richness of invertebrate and lizard fauna needed by tuatara.

Recent advances in both the ability to eradicate rodents from islands and the captive incubation and raising of tuatara have allowed the species to be translocated to a further four islands they presumably inhabited in the past.
http://www.doc.govt.nz/templates/page.aspx?id=33163 for more info
 
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I think we could stop global warming if we all took Bean-o. I am not a global warming kind for person. History proves that. Though, I do believe we need to change our ways. The hole in the ozone is not getting any smaller.
 
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LOL!

Well I'm told that methane IS a greenhouse gas so.... xD

But the hole in the ozone layer has nothing to do with global warming but it IS getting smaller so that's good.
 

Finch

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I think if it was so simple, so many experts in their field who have access and knowledge way beyond us wouldn’t be lead astray chasing ghosts
 
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New Zealand is a poor basis for an argument.................it was ripe for take over by a new alien species. rats have had more to do with their decline than temps. are you telling me it was impossible that in another 20,000 years that it is impossible that a new preditor wouldnt have evolved and wiped them out anyways?

and i did not distroy my own argument. sit and think about it for a minute. crocodilians, live in habits spanning the globe including places that currently see snow and have in the pat most definatly seen snow along with living in very hot areas and they survive even though the sex of their young is temperature driven, they have survived for how many millions of years through how many temperature cycles and are still a dominant large animal species even facing modern mammals.

your tuatara example is using a VERY primitive reptile(so much so that its heart more resembles an amphibians that a reptiles) that is isolated on a single group of islands thats more indanger from rats than it is global warming. as to the experts, they are just like the experts that are screaming about man made global warming now, they are only study the recent past and either ignoring(in the case of the weather nuts) or do not have the data (in the case of the tuatara) to look much past 150 years ago. are you saying its impossible the low female birth rates have NEVER happened to the tuatara in the past? and that a few degrees in temperature difference is more of a threat than rats to their survival as a species? using the tuatara as an example for this is liketrying to use a endangered rabbit on some mountain here in the US as your defence arguement. your using examples that are bound to be wiped out eventually anyways even if man was not on this planet exactly because of their isolation has led to specialization which makes them vulnerable to changes anyways. the tuatara has been doomed to extinction since before our ancestors left the trees. its a design thats destained to fail when you introduce competition from animals currently alive and thriving elsewhere on the planet
 

Ozzy

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While I mostly agree with you Rattler, but its still not ok to say that who cares if they die off, they were doomed anyway. It's not right for us to hurry up an extixtion that was going to happen sooner or later anyway.

Normaly it is these sensitive animals that die out first when there is a problem. Kind of like amphibians are the first animals to show the effects of pollution in a body of water.
 
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[b said:
Quote[/b] ]but its still not ok to say that who cares if they die off,

never said dont care, am saying its a poor example to show that "global warming" is killing off species when there is no evidance that the species can not handle it when they in all likelyhood have handled it in the past
 

Ozzy

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I was doing a little research on tuatara's since Idon't know much about them. I found this.

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Males will sit outside their burrows and when a female walks past he will circle her. If the female is interested they will mate.

Some things are true in almost all species. LOL
laugh.gif
 
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