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Looking to trade for S. oreophila, but ridiculously specific

jonnyq

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Update: NEW YORK MEMBERS ONLY
(Thx, Cthulu!)

This is a shot in the dark, but does anyone have a division of S. oreophila that they'd like to trade for? (I think that trading across state lines is legal, just not selling, correct?)

I'm afraid what I have to offer may be the limiting factor... One or more of the following, depending on the size of the available division (if any takers)

1) Nepenthes alba (3" pot)
2) Nepenthes 'Lady Pauline' (rooted cutting, 4" pot)
3) Sarracenia 'Doreen's Colossus' (small division)
4) large unidentified Ping
5) large Drosera 'Marston Dragon'

If this is of interest to anyone IN NEW YORK , please PM me, thx!
 
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Bio

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There is a nursery located in Virginia that has the permit to sell endangered Sarracenia, though they are rather expensive.
 
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I don't see how a nursery can have a permit to sell S. oreophila when plants of it are not to cross state lines.
 

Not a Number

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I don't see how a nursery can have a permit to sell S. oreophila when plants of it are not to cross state lines.

The ICPS has a permit that allows them to "sell" ESA/CITES seeds in the USA. These permits are from the Fish and Wildlife Service that enforces the Endangered Species Act.

US Fish and Wildlife Service Permits

Recovery and interstate commerce permits are issued to allow for take as part of activities intended to foster the recovery of listed species. A typical use of a recovery permit is to allow for scientific research on a listed species in order to understand better the species' long-term survival needs. Interstate commerce permits also allow transport and sale of listed species across State lines (e.g., for purposes such as a breeding program).

Permit Fact Sheet
Permit FAQ

See also Endangered Species Act - Exceptions
 
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jonnyq

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There is a nursery located in Virginia that has the permit to sell endangered Sarracenia, though they are rather expensive.

Hi Bio! Yes, indeed, but unfortunately, they're sold out... :( But I do appreciate the response... :)

NaN, thx for the links and info!

And again, sorry for the confusion. I had thought that they were only barred from crossing state lines if it involved a payment (commerce), whereas either a giveaway or a trade were legal, but that was apparently wrong. :D Good to learn!

Added: (Seriously, really glad for the info. Truly do NOT want to break the law, inadvertantly or not.) :D
 
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Let me know if you don't have any luck. I can probably bring one to the fall NECPS show for you if you plan on going again.
 
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It is still unclear to me whether the restrictions apply only to live plants, or only sometimes, based on permits and intent, or what.
 

Not a Number

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And again, sorry for the confusion. I had thought that they were only barred from crossing state lines if it involved a payment (commerce), whereas either a giveaway or a trade were legal, but that was apparently wrong. :D Good to learn!

Added: (Seriously, really glad for the info. Truly do NOT want to break the law, inadvertantly or not.) :D

The words commerce and trade are interchangeable. Commerce/Trade is the exchange of money, goods/property or services.
 
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Seems fairly straight forward to me. If you have any questions do as Dr. Wurm did and contact the Fish and Wildlife Service. That would be more productive than endless speculation and arm-chair lawyering.

http://www.fws.gov/endangered/regions/index.html

What I mean is that the permit, such as the ICPS has, applies to he distribution of seed to any state, but any/all exchanges of live plant material is limited to transactions within state lines, correct?
 

SubRosa

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Meadowview does sell a couple of endangered species with no mention of any restrictions on out of state sales. He lists an expiration date of 7/31/14 for his permit. There is obviously a way it can be done legally, but I'd bet dollars to donuts that doing it as a private individual, or for the express purpose of turning a profit would preclude the issuance of a permit. His being a non-profit almost certainly is a major factor in his having the permit.
 

Not a Number

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What I mean is that the permit, such as the ICPS has, applies to he distribution of seed to any state, but any/all exchanges of live plant material is limited to transactions within state lines, correct?

The term "Plants" in the regulations refers to Plants, seeds, and plant parts (cuttings, roots, tubers, pollen etc.)

The permit application states this:
http://www.fws.gov/forms/3-200-55.pdf
Interstate Commerce permits authorize the sale of native endangered and threatened species across State lines, but only for activities that will contribute to the species’ recovery by enhancing their propagation or survival.

PLEASE NOTE:
• Interstate commerce activities for wildlife require the buyer to obtain a permit prior to the sale (50 CFR 17.21(f) and 17.31(a)).
• In addition, our regulations at 50 CFR 17.62(a) for endangered plant species and 17.72(a) for threatened plant species require that –
- Interstate commerce activities for plants taken from the wild require the buyer to obtain a permit prior to the sale.
- Interstate commerce activities for plants taken from cultivated stock require the seller to obtain a permit prior to the sale.​

Meadowview does sell a couple of endangered species with no mention of any restrictions on out of state sales. He lists an expiration date of 7/31/14 for his permit. There is obviously a way it can be done legally, but I'd bet dollars to donuts that doing it as a private individual, or for the express purpose of turning a profit would preclude the issuance of a permit. His being a non-profit almost certainly is a major factor in his having the permit.

I would say Meadowview and the ICPS seedbank's missions meet the proviso emphasized above.
 
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Problem solved. I'm sending Jonny a division of S.oreophila "Alabama" and S.oreophila "Sand Mountain" free of charge, no shipping fees, no trade involved.
 
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I am often impressed by the selfless generosity of this community. The more you give, the healthier we become as an organism.

I've been involved for twenty years in growing and breeding roses, and there is a strong community built around a network of amateur (and professional) hybridizers, and we have a core principle: if you want to preserve something, give it to others! In that way, you create a networked archive of plant material, and if you ever lose your specimen, you should be able to requisition a replacement from someone you've donated material to. It's insurance against loss.
 
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I am often impressed by the selfless generosity of this community. The more you give, the healthier we become as an organism.

I've been involved for twenty years in growing and breeding roses, and there is a strong community built around a network of amateur (and professional) hybridizers, and we have a core principle: if you want to preserve something, give it to others! In that way, you create a networked archive of plant material, and if you ever lose your specimen, you should be able to requisition a replacement from someone you've donated material to. It's insurance against loss.
Totally agree. Except for the breeding roses part--I haven't intentionally grown a single one in my lifetime because of deer and maintenance! :-D
 
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