New Nepenthes Dying

[CaRnIvORoUs_FrEaK]

Hello Terraforums! I recently purchased a Nepenthes talangensis X sibuyanesis from Carnivero and feel that I’m not providing it the right conditions. It is wilting pretty severely and new growth is also browning/dying. I fear that I didn’t pot it correctly when I first received it. It was a root ball wrapped in live sphagnum moss and I just transplanted it into a mixture of LFSM and perlite, 50/50. I wish I could upload photos but not sure how. Temp is usually 75-85 daytime and 60-70 nighttime, with a humidity of around 50-70%. The base stem is now brown and the old leaves feel dry and dead, 2 new leaves that still feel waxy and alive but their wilting too. Any help would be greatly appreciated

 

[TheGuru]

pictures would be a big help, just use a site like imgur.com to post them

Other than that, how are you watering them? How often? Are you fertilizing or feeding them anything? How are they getting light and how much?

 

[Vidyut]

It is normal for neps to stumble a bit after shipping, potting, etc. Wilting is not good. Maybe give it better humidity till it starts growing a bit?

If you post photos, will be easier to make out what is going on.

 

[CaRnIvORoUs_FrEaK]

Hopefully this link works. I’ve been watering when the substrate seems too dry with distilled. Every 2-3 days probably. Just started misting 3 days ago but it doesn’t seem to be helping.
https://ibb.co/t4bQzsj

 

[TheGuru]

just based off the picture and without any further information I notice there is a LOT of standing water on the leaves. If you get water on the crown (where new growth comes from) you can get that is known as crown rot. You don't want standing water on top of the plant. Also, you need to not water from the top (watering on top of the soil) but instead have the plant in a tray of some type and fill the tray. Just add water to the tray when it gets empty and fill it a couple of inches or so. The LFM will absorb and pull the water up to the roots.

 

[Whimgrinder]

Bag the plant (pot and all) in a ziploc bag (or equivalent) and place it in a bright place where it will NOT get direct sunlight. Your plant is on the brink and needs ICU time.

 

[Whimgrinder]

Also, you need to not water from the top (watering on top of the soil) but instead have the plant in a tray of some type and fill the tray. Just add water to the tray when it gets empty and fill it a couple of inches or so. The LFM will absorb and pull the water up to the roots.

Its fine to water by placing it in a tray and letting the water soak from below, but its completely unnecessary to avoid watering from on top! You DO realize these plants get rained on (often daily) and live in forests where humidity is often near 100% all the time, and condensation on the foliage happens every night, right? These plants were BUILT to endure getting wet a lot.

 

[TheGuru]

Its fine to water by placing it in a tray and letting the water soak from below, but its completely unnecessary to avoid watering from on top! You DO realize these plants get rained on (often daily) and live in forests where humidity is often near 100% all the time, and condensation on the foliage happens every night, right? These plants were BUILT to endure getting wet a lot.

The plants definitely do all of that.... in nature. Of course, the conditions and media we use to grow them are not the same. When you water from the top you tend get fungus, mold, crown rot, etc, etc. I'm not saying it can't be controlled, but most new growers don't have the experience or knowledge for that. Therefore, it was much easier to recommend what I did. Sorry if that bothered you *shrug*

 

[Vidyut]

Looks like there is plenty of water. I suspect you just watered it, so I don't think this is a big deal. But the plant isn't looking good. Next few weeks will be critical. I'd suggest checking the leaves carefully for any critters or fungus that shouldn't be there and doing a "just in case" neem spray before putting it in a bag and leaving it strictly alone (no moving, no nothing) for a while. Good light will be excellent, but NOT direct sunlight, since it will be in a bag. Soaking with seaweed fertilizer or that superthrive thing people talk about could help.

Only other thing I can think of is a fungicide soak for the pot. Also "just in case", but if fungus at the root is the cause of the problem, it may already be too late. Don't use trichoderma - it works better as a preventative. Use a systemic fungicide if you can, or regular contact whatever on hand or even a neem oil soak will do.

Once you've set it up comfortably, DON'T MOVE IT unless it either visibly recovers or visibly dies. It won't need more water in the bag. Don't do anything, just leave it alone, so it isn't constantly spending energy on organizing itself to new orientations. No matter how long it takes. I can't stress this enough. This can really make the difference between if it lives or dies and I suspect this is the secret behind plants that thrive on neglect.

If there is a way to give it better humidity than putting it in a bag, it will be better - misters, etc, humidity AND fresh air is better than humidity alone (this is a lucky time in our area - torrential monsoon, the world is our humidity dome), but bag is better than open air if not.

 

[Vidyut]

just based off the picture and without any further information I notice there is a LOT of standing water on the leaves. If you get water on the crown (where new growth comes from) you can get that is known as crown rot. You don't want standing water on top of the plant. Also, you need to not water from the top (watering on top of the soil) but instead have the plant in a tray of some type and fill the tray. Just add water to the tray when it gets empty and fill it a couple of inches or so. The LFM will absorb and pull the water up to the roots.

For me, top watering works better than bottom for nepenthes. Standing in water can get roots too wet - particularly when using sphagnum and cause/worsen root rot - which can also cause wilting leaves. It seems counterintuitive, but the drier the leaves look, the more important it becomes to make sure the soil is well drained and not soggy at all. The leaves are dry because for whatever reason, the water at the roots isn't reaching them. Adding more water to the roots won't fix that. As long as the media isn't dry, the roots have water and the problem is elsewhere.

Top watering and letting the water drain away and not watering again till most of the water is used up can let the roots breathe better.

 

[Vidyut]

The plants definitely do all of that.... in nature. Of course, the conditions and media we use to grow them are not the same. When you water from the top you tend get fungus, mold, crown rot, etc, etc. I'm not saying it can't be controlled, but most new growers don't have the experience or knowledge for that. Therefore, it was much easier to recommend what I did. Sorry if that bothered you *shrug*

Probably a location thing, but I've never had rot issues because of top watering. Where I live, it is warm (hot) and breezy so I guess the foliage dries off pretty fast and the plants appreciate the shower. They LOVE the monsoon - even potted plants! Though they aren't directly under rain, but plenty blows in and leaves can be wet for as long as it rains. They love all that.

I get rot issues when a pot isn't draining well enough or the plant has too few roots and is potted in a lot of sphagnum which gets soggy. Even with that, plants in heavy, soggy sphagnum that get water running through do better than ponts in heavy soggy stagnant sphagnum.

 

[CaRnIvORoUs_FrEaK]

Thank you so much for the quick replies guys! I just received the plant about a week ago so don’t believe it’s a pest or infestation, unless it came like that from the nursery. It’s under a zip lock bag now and I’ll leave it alone with fingers crossed. Thank you again guys

 

[hcarlton]

Misting the plant doesn't actually do anything for maintaining humidity, and can temperature-shock the plant as well as, depending on lighting and location, cause burning or fungal infection on the leaves. Bagging and acclimating is definitely a far better option.
Also, you purchased a cross between a highland and ultra-highland plant, meaning even if the hybrid is more tolerant it's going to want cool night temperatures (dropping BELOW 60 F) in order to do well long-term. If the temps don't drop, it will eventually decline. Both sibuyanensis and talangensis are also humidity lovers, so if you can't build a location where the humidity remains above 60-70% at least at all times, it may pitcher only rarely.

 

[IDgalaxy]

I've had this happen before with one of my plants and when I tried everything to revive it and nothing seemed out of sorts, I dug in deeper and found that it had little to no roots. In this instance it is crucial to keep the spahgnum moist but not to much so the roots don't suffocate and rot. Extra humidity is also a good thing.

 

[Vidyut]

Misting the plant doesn't actually do anything for maintaining humidity, and can temperature-shock the plant as well as, depending on lighting and location, cause burning or fungal infection on the leaves. Bagging and acclimating is definitely a far better option.
Also, you purchased a cross between a highland and ultra-highland plant, meaning even if the hybrid is more tolerant it's going to want cool night temperatures (dropping BELOW 60 F) in order to do well long-term. If the temps don't drop, it will eventually decline. Both sibuyanensis and talangensis are also humidity lovers, so if you can't build a location where the humidity remains above 60-70% at least at all times, it may pitcher only rarely.

I suppose this may be a location related thing. For me, growing anything but lowlanders without misters is not good in summers in particular, but even otherwise with pitchering, etc. This is a bright, hot balcony. Before I installed the misters, I could have as much as half my plants die of heat stress. And not just intermediates and highlanders. Even a rafflesiana can cook with direct sunlight for 7 hours on a concrete balcony with temperatures 35C+ daily for months. Now summer deaths are down to literally less than 10% of my plants, mostly intermediates/highlanders that haven't acclimatized well before summer hits.

 

[hcarlton]

I read in your other post on the hamata thread you have a misting setup system that maintains a regular, fairly heavy schedule, which is much like creating a localized hyper humid environment as seen in climate-controlled greenhouses (just on a slightly more variable level due to open access); that is very different from the "misting" most people are going to give, which is a spritz from something like a spray bottle whenever they might walk by. It's not location, it's the setup. Additionally, something like your system is covering a much larger area, reaching multiple plants, and so maintaining a true local climate, not just a sudden spray in one small spot that will evaporate rapidly and do little in the long run.

 

[Vidyut]

That is the general idea, [MENTION=9012]hcarlton[/MENTION] - I read about "micro climate" somewhere and it made a lot of sense. I can't change my climate, but I can make the area the plants are in more humid and somewhat cooler. Evaporative cooling seems to fit the bill on both fronts. The misting is more for the air than the plants. It is frequent, but the duration is very brief. The "5 seconds" too isn't really 5 seconds, since the pump takes about a second or two build pressure to get the misters started. More like giving a couple of spritz in the air, except in a LOT of places at once. The window is open day and night (so I can stare at my plants all the time ) and mist blows into the home as well and it is pleasant. I'm using my laptop right here on my bed, 2ft from the window with direct mist coming in with no risk. There are papers here, no harm. Plants in the balcony will get a few wet leaves, but never really "drenched" "dripping" kind. Best cooling is achieved with all the water evaporating at the fastest rate it can. Water that stays there doesn't cool as much. For the plants I imagine it feels more like growing shaded and getting a spray of rain every so often.

The microclimate thing also works good with numbers. The more plants there are in the balcony, the happier they look. The more sparse the balcony is, the harder it is to grow them well. I suppose the sheer mass of cooled plants together retains the cool a bit better or more correctly, re-heat up slower.

Downside of the misting system is that I now have a few close friends who prefer to socialize in my bedroom than the living room, to enjoy the mist. My mom has developed a habit of coming and staring at the plants to enjoy the misters. lol.

Apparently it works for people in hot climates too.