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Petition to stop bulldozing in the Borneo Rainforest

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May 27, 2014
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Okay so on the California Carnivores FB page they recently shared a link that talks about how an Australian mining company called BHP Billiton and Cokal are planning on bulldozing and clearing parts of the Borneo rainforest in Indonesia to make way for open-cut coal mines.

As many of you know, the Borneo rainforest is home to many nepenthes species. This developing project not only affects the survival of those species, but the survival of many endangered animal species, such as the orangutan. It could also affect local villages in a disastrous way.

Here's a link for more information, included a petition to stop the company from destroying the rainforest.

http://action.sumofus.org/a/indonesia-rainforest/2/3/?sub=fb


:help:
 

NemJones

I Am the Terror Of the Night!
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As zath said, this is a nice place for it. Anyways, I didnt see this before. We should send terraforum mercenaries there to protect the forest.
 
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I may be missing something here, but why the heck would they have to bull doze an entire rain forest to make a coal mine? Id think they'd just have to bulldoze a road/path to the area they would be mining and that is all.
 

NemJones

I Am the Terror Of the Night!
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I may be missing something here, but why the heck would they have to bull doze an entire rain forest to make a coal mine? Id think they'd just have to bulldoze a road/path to the area they would be mining and that is all.
Roads for vehicles, equipment, and people destroy the land around them in general. Depends what
Kind of mine too.
 
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I may be missing something here, but why the heck would they have to bull doze an entire rain forest to make a coal mine? Id think they'd just have to bulldoze a road/path to the area they would be mining and that is all.

A coal mine is a pretty big operation, not just a hole in the ground but more like a small town. There's tons of equipment, outbuildings and other gear involved here. Thousands of acres of forest can be cleared for a single mining operation.
 
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Images of modern coal mines:

Strip_coal_mining.jpg


coal-sandstorm-mine01.jpg
 

SubRosa

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As much as I agree in theory, in practice interfering in the affairs of a foreign country is a sticky situation. How many residents of India would be willing to sign a petition trying to force us to stop eating cows?
 

fdfederation

Confused Magikarp
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As much as I agree in theory, in practice interfering in the affairs of a foreign country is a sticky situation. How many residents of India would be willing to sign a petition trying to force us to stop eating cows?

Well, cattle ranching can have a negative effect on the environment, especially in regions where grazing is not well managed. Lol
 

NemJones

I Am the Terror Of the Night!
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As much as I agree in theory, in practice interfering in the affairs of a foreign country is a sticky situation. How many residents of India would be willing to sign a petition trying to force us to stop eating cows?

This indeed is very true, however it doesnt make it right. Even though its a different country
Doesnt mean that people should give up and not defend it. People are still fighting for the
Amazonian rainforest regardless of their origin and country nationality.

You must fight for what you love and want protected.
Remember..once its gone, its gone forever. With that in mind, SOMETHING must
Be put in place to protect the forest. They will keep destroying untill nothing is left.
 

SubRosa

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As long as the people who live there see only destructive ways to earn a living from a forest, the only way to keep them from destroying it is by force. It's bad enough for a government to use force against its citizens. Even in the most repressive regimes ha e to answer to their citizens on some level. The super- national solutions you seem to be espousing eliminate the feedback loop, and are rooted in elitism. Until the residents of the area begin to see sustainable uses for the forest, someone is going to be committing a "crime" in someone's eyes. I'd rather see that "crime" be people trying to support their families rather than a government telling them they can't support their families. Of course the ideal outcome is that the residents of the area begin to think in longer terms regarding the use of the resource.
 
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The super- national solutions you seem to be espousing eliminate the feedback loop, and are rooted in elitism. Until the residents of the area begin to see sustainable uses for the forest, someone is going to be committing a "crime" in someone's eyes.

Looking at the world through First World Glasses isn't going to lead to any meaningful solutions.
 

SubRosa

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Looking at the world through First World Glasses isn't going to lead to any meaningful solutions.
It isn't a matter of which world one looks at the problem from. It's simply an exercise in chess. In chess the player able to see most accurately into the future wins. But one first has to have a goal in mind, and execute a coherent strategy to achieve that goal. Simplistic solutions inevitably lead to unintended consequences. One of which is usually losing the game. For instance if simply passing laws protecting them really worked there would be a lot more White Rhinos than there currently are. But as long as people who live around them think a dead rhino is more valuable than a live one, they'll keep making more dead ones than live ones. That's an aspect of human nature common to all worlds.
 
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Sorry, but if you think this is "people trying to support their families", then you might want to look closer. This is nothing more than big (foreign) multinationals making a deal with the Indonesian government to hack up the rainforest. If anything, anybody living there now will have to get the hell out. The only winners here are the companies and the Indonesian government. You might argue that the money will flow to the Indonesian people, but I'm guessing there won't be a lot left after it has passed through the top layers...

So yes, you really should sign this, and try to stop another couple of (Australian) multinationals abusing our rainforest. Our rainforest, because it might be located in Indonesia, but it should in my opinion be listed as a world property and protected by everyone.
 

SubRosa

BS Bulldozer
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Sorry, but if you think this is "people trying to support their families", then you might want to look closer. This is nothing more than big (foreign) multinationals making a deal with the Indonesian government to hack up the rainforest. If anything, anybody living there now will have to get the hell out. The only winners here are the companies and the Indonesian government. You might argue that the money will flow to the Indonesian people, but I'm guessing there won't be a lot left after it has passed through the top layers...

So yes, you really should sign this, and try to stop another couple of (Australian) multinationals abusing our rainforest. Our rainforest, because it might be located in Indonesia, but it should in my opinion be listed as a world property and protected by everyone.
I guess we have different definitions of the words "sovereignty" and "mine".
 
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