Vfts on the west coast

Joined
Apr 13, 2003
Messages
818
Location
Cambridge, MA, USA
I ran into a lady name of Leilani who keeps a couple of large greenhouses in Washington on the Olympic Peninsula at the amazing Glass Flowers exhibit in Harvard's Museum of Natural History last Friday.  Of course we got to discussing interesting plants to grow, and because we were standing in front of the ...
20030501-CP-HMNH-Glass Flowers-D.muscipula, D.rotundifolia, & S.purpurea.jpg

20030501-CP-HMNH-Glass Flowers-S.flava, D.californica, & D.filiformis.jpg

20030501-CP-HMNH-Glass Flowers-N.maxima.jpg

... carnivorous plants, the discussion turned to CPs.  

I'll leave out the boring details, but the one thing that came up that i have to ask the forum is regarding the original extent of the VFT habitat.  She asserted that the VFT was native to the Olympic Peninsula (i believe that was it - somewhere in Washington, at least) as well as the Carolinas.  Now, i know what i've read, and i've read it a lot of places, and i told her so myself: the VFT is native to just the Carolinas.  She replied again that it was in Washington as well.  I asked if perhaps it was naturalized there, and she said that it was indigenous to the area.  So, has anybody heard of this before?  I am inclined to disbelieve, but she seemed to know a lot about the other topics we discussed, so i'm willing to give her story a chance.

Thanks
-Nate L
 

Ozzy

SirKristoff is a poopiehead
Staff member
Supporter
Moderator
Joined
Jul 29, 2001
Messages
13,760
Location
Greenswamp, NC
Interesting story. I personally disbelieve it, but I am willing to keep my mind open and hear the evidence. Alot of people have told me different places that vft's grow. A few spots in Michigan, And if I'm not mistaken I think it was Nick Hubble told me that a friend of his was growing vft's outside in Ohio.
There are only one place other than the Carolinas that i know vft's grow. And that is in N. Florida. In 1978 a small area of vft's were found near Tallahassee.There are two different theories on how they got there. One is that some guy (forgot his name) scattered seeds there. The other is that seeds were transported from the Carolinas in mud on the feet of migratory birds. There is a route that migratory birds take that leads them from the coastal Carolinas to the Apalachicola National Forest (where the vft's in Florida are located.)
If she can produce any fact's I would love to hear them.
 

unknownclown

BoooOOOOooooo!!!!!
Joined
Aug 28, 2001
Messages
1,501
Location
Edmonds WA
well I know that I grow mine outside here in WA with no problems so maybe it could happen, but Ive never heard of it either
confused.gif
Thats strange.

Sorry I dont have anything helpful to add.
rolleyes.gif


You wouldnt have by any chance asked her how she managed to preserve her plants so perfectly would you? I would love to be able to do that!
 
Joined
Apr 13, 2003
Messages
818
Location
Cambridge, MA, USA
The photos are of the famous glass flowers made at the turn of the century on commission by the Blaschkas.  They are found in the Harvard Museum of Natural History, which is quite a remarkable museum, even apart from the one-of-a-kind collection of around 3000 exquisitely detailed glass models.

So, those aren't preserved plants, they are incredibly lifelike recreations of them... in glass!

I wonder if any birds migrate across the states East to West.  Probably not...
 

Kate

Far too old to grow up now.
Joined
Aug 26, 2002
Messages
429
Location
Vancouver Island
Okay, according to "Plants of Coastal British Columbia (Including Oregon, Washington, and Alaska)" Compiled and edited by: Jim Pojar and Andy MacKinnon for the 'BC Forest Service Research Program' Published by Lone Pine Publishing © 1994 which was also published as "Plants of the Pacific Northwest Coast" (This more than covers the Olympic Peninsula and all surrounding area of the state) Have absolutly no listing of Venus Flytraps under any name.

So that would be a no.

Edit: She wouldn't happen to have been from Anacortes would she?
 
Joined
Apr 13, 2003
Messages
818
Location
Cambridge, MA, USA
Thanks Maehem. I don't really think it's the kind of thing that would be in a book like that, otherwise more people would have heard of it. It's the kind of thing that's really hard to resolve, because written sources are probably few or nonexistent, and current observation wouldn't discern between naturalized and native plants. Probably have to talk to locals who have been around a while, and i'm not in a position (Boston) to just jaunt over there and do so.
wink.gif


I have no idea where Anacortes is. Why do you ask?
 

Kate

Far too old to grow up now.
Joined
Aug 26, 2002
Messages
429
Location
Vancouver Island
I was (until 2001) a local, and I know the gentelmen that wrote/edited the book. If VFT had been there they would have put them in. They were including everything, native and naturalized. It's a complete listing of every species known to grow there. They included the dews(native and intorduced), the pings (natives), the utrics(also native) and the Sarr. that were introduced into Burns Bog (outside Vancouver) but no mention of VFT's, not even in the "Now extinct" list.

This is a agricultural/forestry/tourism heavy area, and quite literally thousands of field studies have been done over the last several decades (one of the sited reports dates back to 1850). This book was a compilation of all the species listed and described in these reports, so chances are, there wasn't much missed.

I did do some looking after my last post, and there has been a follow up report (1999) that states a colony of VFT have been introduced on the Oylimpic Penisula and are verging on "naturalized" status (most likely escapees from someones collection). Other than that, a few in botanical garden type settings and man-made bogs, but thats it.

So, as far as the botanical community of the area is concerned VFT in the State of Washington and remainder of the northern Pacific coast are an introduced species only. I have a call in to Jim and Andy to verify this just to be sure.

The Question about Anacortes (which is in the general area in question) was just curiosity on my part.
 
Joined
Apr 13, 2003
Messages
818
Location
Cambridge, MA, USA
Thanks a lot Maehem (that's a cool name, btw). I still think it's "too good to be true", but it would be really interesting, nonetheless. Didn't mean to cast aspersions on your friend's book, just being cautious.

Let me know what you find out, please. I'm going to email the lady and ask her for a reference or locale. Should have done that originally, i guess.
 

Tim

Joined
Nov 12, 2002
Messages
478
The woman was just digging her feet in because she didn't want to admit she was wrong. Simple as that.
 
Joined
May 13, 2003
Messages
47
Location
Madras,Oregon
A most interesting debate which reminds me of another.

For decades a similar ongoing argument concerning the Wood Duck (Aix sponsa) has yet to be resolved.

The Wood Duck is thought to be a native only of the Eastern States yet a population is found along the Northwest Coastline from Washington to Oregon.

Are these waterfowl indigenous or are they the result of released transplants?

Both arguments concerning the Wood Duck seem plausible.As for the VFT being native to the Olympic Penninsula ,well,that is a long stretch.The VFT is so highly specialized and adapted to it's tiny geographical range that it would also be native in the Northwest is beyond belief.Then again,stranger things occur in nature.
 
J

jimflytrap

Guest
I live in vancouver bc and there is this lake which has little moss islands with little venus fly traps growing on them. isnt that wacki.
 

Ozzy

SirKristoff is a poopiehead
Staff member
Supporter
Moderator
Joined
Jul 29, 2001
Messages
13,760
Location
Greenswamp, NC
They would have to be transplanted by somebody, I'm sure they are not natrual.
 
Joined
Aug 27, 2001
Messages
2,968
Location
Western New York, USA
ANY Venus Fly Traps growing in "the wild" outside of the North/South Carolina native habitat were introduced by humans..
might have been 100 years ago! so they might appear native simply because they have been around so long, but still introduced..

absolutely no question about it..

I have heard of "wild" introduced populations in Vermont and England..and now Washington state!
cool...maybe we should compile a list of all the places "wild" VFT's now live!

Scot
 

Ozzy

SirKristoff is a poopiehead
Staff member
Supporter
Moderator
Joined
Jul 29, 2001
Messages
13,760
Location
Greenswamp, NC
There is some question about a site in Florida. You can read about it in the second post in this topic.
 
Joined
Sep 16, 2002
Messages
1,390
Location
San Francisco
theres a book by donald shnell or something called carnivorous plants of north america i believe , it mention about vfts gorwing in toerh staes exceopt of the carolinas .
 

Ozzy

SirKristoff is a poopiehead
Staff member
Supporter
Moderator
Joined
Jul 29, 2001
Messages
13,760
Location
Greenswamp, NC
The book is Carnivorous Plants of The United States and Canada. The only other place it talks about vft's growing is the location in Florida. Here's what I have already wrote about it at the begining of this topic.
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"> Interesting story. I personally disbelieve it, but I am willing to keep my mind open and hear the evidence. Alot of people have told me different places that vft's grow. A few spots in Michigan, And if I'm not mistaken I think it was Nick Hubble told me that a friend of his was growing vft's outside in Ohio.
There are only one place other than the Carolinas that i know vft's grow. And that is in N. Florida. In 1978 a small area of vft's were found near Tallahassee.There are two different theories on how they got there. One is that some guy (forgot his name) scattered seeds there. The other is that seeds were transported from the Carolinas in mud on the feet of migratory birds. There is a route that migratory birds take that leads them from the coastal Carolinas to the Apalachicola National Forest (where the vft's in Florida are located.)
If she can produce any fact's I would love to hear them. [/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
 
Top