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Edwardsiana
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- cultivation edwardsiana female
nepenthes gracilis
Nepenthes Specialist
No one said anyones view point wasn't valid but the view point has changed from the original "this guy should not sell edwardsiana seedlings to 'just anyone', especially 13 year olds" to "I'm not selling my only seed grown variegated villosa" (??).
Seperating breeder plants is a totally different attitude than telling someone they can't buy this plant which is maked for general sale because you don't think they know what they're doing based on whatever reason you've concluded from seeing the person for 10 minutes in your store. Maybe that sort of attitude is legal, but I know if I brought a plant that was potted and marked for sale up to the counter and they said something like "you're not important enough to own that plant, put it down". I would be literally beside myself at the audacity of their arrogance. They don't know who I am or what kind of growing setups I have going. I would put the pot down but certainly never return to their store/GH again and probably tell other people what kind of people they are at that place. Not a wise way to conduct business and keep a customer base. If you don't want customers it's fine to be a click and you surely won't have any.
However, if they said "do you see the red tag, that indicates it's one of our breeder plants, we don't sell any with the red tags" that's a totally different story. End of story.
My cousin Katie (who is 16) has the same fears with selling her veiled chameleon babies. "How do I know they're going to a good home where they will be well cared for?" is what she always says. But she certainly can not feed and give proper care by herself to 40, 80, and more baby veileds every couple years. Her adults are beautiful but what would ahppen if you where to try and keep every baby that hatched? They have to be sold or given away or risk steadily decreasing culture standards by an overworked caregiver. I suspect Robert can not care for several hundred N. edwardsiana for the rest of his natural life or spend his days emailing every person he's ever sold a plant to, to find out how they're doing. He is likely a very busy man with plenty of other eggs in his basket.
Of course all vendors hope their cuttings and seedlings go to good homes but in reality we can't hold the worlds hand. I wonder how many cuttings and plants I've sold to various forum members are still alive? I don't even know who all I've sold to. I can't lay awake at night worrying about it because there's nothing I can do to make them grow when I'm not taking care of them. If you can't bare to part with the plants best not to be a vendor and merely trade with your friends, which is fine.
Seperating breeder plants is a totally different attitude than telling someone they can't buy this plant which is maked for general sale because you don't think they know what they're doing based on whatever reason you've concluded from seeing the person for 10 minutes in your store. Maybe that sort of attitude is legal, but I know if I brought a plant that was potted and marked for sale up to the counter and they said something like "you're not important enough to own that plant, put it down". I would be literally beside myself at the audacity of their arrogance. They don't know who I am or what kind of growing setups I have going. I would put the pot down but certainly never return to their store/GH again and probably tell other people what kind of people they are at that place. Not a wise way to conduct business and keep a customer base. If you don't want customers it's fine to be a click and you surely won't have any.
However, if they said "do you see the red tag, that indicates it's one of our breeder plants, we don't sell any with the red tags" that's a totally different story. End of story.
My cousin Katie (who is 16) has the same fears with selling her veiled chameleon babies. "How do I know they're going to a good home where they will be well cared for?" is what she always says. But she certainly can not feed and give proper care by herself to 40, 80, and more baby veileds every couple years. Her adults are beautiful but what would ahppen if you where to try and keep every baby that hatched? They have to be sold or given away or risk steadily decreasing culture standards by an overworked caregiver. I suspect Robert can not care for several hundred N. edwardsiana for the rest of his natural life or spend his days emailing every person he's ever sold a plant to, to find out how they're doing. He is likely a very busy man with plenty of other eggs in his basket.
Of course all vendors hope their cuttings and seedlings go to good homes but in reality we can't hold the worlds hand. I wonder how many cuttings and plants I've sold to various forum members are still alive? I don't even know who all I've sold to. I can't lay awake at night worrying about it because there's nothing I can do to make them grow when I'm not taking care of them. If you can't bare to part with the plants best not to be a vendor and merely trade with your friends, which is fine.
I just came acros this topic.. and have something to add:
First, some pictures taken at the growchamber of Malesiana Tropicals, who have a really nice specimens of N. edwardsiana. (and the only one i've ever seen in cultivation! No other cultivar , exept the above ,so far could provide a picture soo far as i know)
As i cannot comment all the things said in the previous 15 ! pages, i will restrict me to the follow:
It seems to be nearly impossible to cultivate this species in culture. The substrate seems to be the problem, according to the gardener at Malesiana.. (Personnaly i'm not too sure if this is true, rather a PR statement?)
Legitimacy of seeds: To illustrate, if you steal a thing an sell it, the buyer can get with "god faith" but never gets the propper propriety of the object, as the vendor lacks the propriety title.
In casu: a plant/seed taken in the wild and without permission as described earlier, will never become a "legal" specimen. Even with permission of an US Authority, as the Malesian authority initially refused it.
Thats a fact, its not like in the Church, where one gets an absolution.
The fact, that prominent cultivars and botanical gardens grow them, or an authority sends them back means nothing! The big nurserys will know that, else these N. edwardsiana would be on the market..
It is only a compromise of destroying a rare and already existing plant or give them to the right hands.. and let them survive.
And here i support very much the idea of giving/selling these seedlings only to EXPERIENCED growers. Among privats, the problem of exchanging "initially illegal collected" species should not be such a problem, as for big commercial nurserys. They only can work with legally obtained material..
The responsability lies in the hands of the cultivar, who obtains such rare plants.. and his skills and determination!
Often a setup for Highland nepentes and Orchids comes along with a big investments of time and money. Private collection can have both!
A true dilemma!
Regards from Berne
Olivier
PS: the pics
1: http://www.firstiwasblind.ch/oli/pics/1000976.jpg
2:http://www.firstiwasblind.ch/oli/pics/1000977.jpg
3:http://www.firstiwasblind.ch/oli/pics/1000978.jpg
First, some pictures taken at the growchamber of Malesiana Tropicals, who have a really nice specimens of N. edwardsiana. (and the only one i've ever seen in cultivation! No other cultivar , exept the above ,so far could provide a picture soo far as i know)
As i cannot comment all the things said in the previous 15 ! pages, i will restrict me to the follow:
It seems to be nearly impossible to cultivate this species in culture. The substrate seems to be the problem, according to the gardener at Malesiana.. (Personnaly i'm not too sure if this is true, rather a PR statement?)
Legitimacy of seeds: To illustrate, if you steal a thing an sell it, the buyer can get with "god faith" but never gets the propper propriety of the object, as the vendor lacks the propriety title.
In casu: a plant/seed taken in the wild and without permission as described earlier, will never become a "legal" specimen. Even with permission of an US Authority, as the Malesian authority initially refused it.
Thats a fact, its not like in the Church, where one gets an absolution.
The fact, that prominent cultivars and botanical gardens grow them, or an authority sends them back means nothing! The big nurserys will know that, else these N. edwardsiana would be on the market..
It is only a compromise of destroying a rare and already existing plant or give them to the right hands.. and let them survive.
And here i support very much the idea of giving/selling these seedlings only to EXPERIENCED growers. Among privats, the problem of exchanging "initially illegal collected" species should not be such a problem, as for big commercial nurserys. They only can work with legally obtained material..
The responsability lies in the hands of the cultivar, who obtains such rare plants.. and his skills and determination!
Often a setup for Highland nepentes and Orchids comes along with a big investments of time and money. Private collection can have both!
A true dilemma!
Regards from Berne
Olivier
PS: the pics
1: http://www.firstiwasblind.ch/oli/pics/1000976.jpg
2:http://www.firstiwasblind.ch/oli/pics/1000977.jpg
3:http://www.firstiwasblind.ch/oli/pics/1000978.jpg
Nice photos there! I see it is growing next to an N. fusca but I can't make out the location data. I don't suppose the gardener at malesiana didn't give you any specifics about the "pixie dust" they have in the soil?
As far as these specific plants being "on the market" the seller is limiting purchasers to 2 seedlings no matter who they are so these seed grown ones probly won't be shipped off to garden centers across the US where that many 14 year olds will be able to get at them anyway. And he certainly isn't going to ship them off to someone who doesn't pay for them after dedicating 3 years and part of his nursery (and it's expenses) to getting them this far.
Rumors are flying (as they usually do) that it's in TC and soon more people will be able to partake of the species. As we've seen already with Wistubas laboratory, rare Nepenthes in TC become very inexpensive within just year or two once the stocks have built up. I sure wish I'd waitied til now to start buying Neps! But TC stocks will certainly ease the "public desire" for seed grown specimens. It does perplex me a great deal that with these prices (for plants already in cultivation) that people still report seed being collected from anything other than the newest discoveries. But that sort of thing may never be combatted because there will always be people who MUST have a wild plant.
However, I respect what Robert is doing by spreading these seedlings (from unsolicited seed donation) thinly, to a number of growers in hopes that as many plants will survive as possible. I do think the price will keep most inexperienced growers without a suitable environment at bay cos I think if they were cheap far more kids would be all over it. As far as those who are inexperienced/illequipped and still manage to get them I doubt there'll be any way to guard against that entirely. Once the TC clones are out is it any less of a "crime" to have a kid kill one of those?
As far as these specific plants being "on the market" the seller is limiting purchasers to 2 seedlings no matter who they are so these seed grown ones probly won't be shipped off to garden centers across the US where that many 14 year olds will be able to get at them anyway. And he certainly isn't going to ship them off to someone who doesn't pay for them after dedicating 3 years and part of his nursery (and it's expenses) to getting them this far.
Rumors are flying (as they usually do) that it's in TC and soon more people will be able to partake of the species. As we've seen already with Wistubas laboratory, rare Nepenthes in TC become very inexpensive within just year or two once the stocks have built up. I sure wish I'd waitied til now to start buying Neps! But TC stocks will certainly ease the "public desire" for seed grown specimens. It does perplex me a great deal that with these prices (for plants already in cultivation) that people still report seed being collected from anything other than the newest discoveries. But that sort of thing may never be combatted because there will always be people who MUST have a wild plant.
However, I respect what Robert is doing by spreading these seedlings (from unsolicited seed donation) thinly, to a number of growers in hopes that as many plants will survive as possible. I do think the price will keep most inexperienced growers without a suitable environment at bay cos I think if they were cheap far more kids would be all over it. As far as those who are inexperienced/illequipped and still manage to get them I doubt there'll be any way to guard against that entirely. Once the TC clones are out is it any less of a "crime" to have a kid kill one of those?
pleeeaase (dry voice) hehe
glider14
Always a newbie
nepenthes gracilis
Nepenthes Specialist
nepenthes gracilis
Nepenthes Specialist
Hi Olivier
Re. your posting on the N. edwardsiana at Malesiana Tropicals. Nepenthes edwardsiana isn't difficult to grow but in our experience it IS slow it IS particular about the potting medium. We use live spagnum in a deep pot and keep wet.
Cheers!
Peter
Peter Boyce
Senior Botanist
Malesiana Tropicals
Suite 9-04, Tun Jugah Tower
No. 18, Jalan Tunku Abdul Rahman
93100 Kuching
Sarawak, Malaysia
(+6082) 419 290 (office)
(+6082) 423 494 (Fax - office)
(+6082) 699 160 (nursery)
(+6082) 699 886 (Fax - nursery)
012 890 3509 (handphone/mobile/cellphone)
botanist@malesiana.com
www.malesiana.com
Re. your posting on the N. edwardsiana at Malesiana Tropicals. Nepenthes edwardsiana isn't difficult to grow but in our experience it IS slow it IS particular about the potting medium. We use live spagnum in a deep pot and keep wet.
Cheers!
Peter
Peter Boyce
Senior Botanist
Malesiana Tropicals
Suite 9-04, Tun Jugah Tower
No. 18, Jalan Tunku Abdul Rahman
93100 Kuching
Sarawak, Malaysia
(+6082) 419 290 (office)
(+6082) 423 494 (Fax - office)
(+6082) 699 160 (nursery)
(+6082) 699 886 (Fax - nursery)
012 890 3509 (handphone/mobile/cellphone)
botanist@malesiana.com
www.malesiana.com
Hi Peter,
You mention that N. edwardsiana is particular about its potting medium. I was wondering what other mixes you have tried and what results were observed? Also, you say that N. edwardsiana is grown in live sphagnum moss, is this the sole potting medium or are other ingredients used?
Thanks,
Michael.
You mention that N. edwardsiana is particular about its potting medium. I was wondering what other mixes you have tried and what results were observed? Also, you say that N. edwardsiana is grown in live sphagnum moss, is this the sole potting medium or are other ingredients used?
Thanks,
Michael.
glider14
Always a newbie
Thanks for that info tid bit Peter, I find pure spahgnum tends to stay too wet for most of my highlanders while a mix of milled sphagnum and bark in a net pot allows a rapid drainage yet retains a good deal of moisture and allows lots of air into the soil.
What temps do you grow it in? I see the plant next to it in the pics is an N. fusca but I can't read the other info on the tag (location data ?).
What temps do you grow it in? I see the plant next to it in the pics is an N. fusca but I can't read the other info on the tag (location data ?).
