First flower

[CP30]

My first nep is flowering! It is a miranda and I do not know if it is a male or female. Is there any way to tell early in the flowering process? If it is a female, how long will I have to polinate it?

 

[Capslock]

Look at the flower, if it's a ball on a think stalk, it's a male. If it's a ball on a thick stalk, it's female. If it's female, you should polinate within a few days of each flower opening.

Capslock

 

[glider14]

also the "caps" on males are more round while on females they are more oval.
Alex

 

[JB_OrchidGuy]

I'm pretty sure pictures would help.

 

[Capslock]

OK. Here it is, from triffidpark.com.au:

Capslock

 

[CP30]

Thanks for the pics and the descriptions. It definitely appears male.
Anyone need pollen? It has 3 spikes so far, one is almost 2 feet long now.

 

[glider14]

sorry...to be included on mine---> that is for unopened flowers. so you could probly tell right now.
Alex

 

[srduggins]

Most varieties you can tell by looking at the bud. This is female:

This is male:

 

[schloaty]

I think I've heard that all Miranda's are male, and also sterile.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong.....

 

[srduggins]

Yes, I've heard the same thing. There are also rumors that someone was successful with Miranda pollen recently, but until I see some convincing results..... Also, not everything that looks like Miranda is Miranda. There are a lot of maxima x Mixta and variations out there that look a lot like Miranda. Is it possible Miranda is a tetraploid? Nice big robust pitchers and sterile with all the normal diploid Neps out there.

 

[Jason Wong]

I thought tetras could be crossed back to diploids to give triploids...sounds like something from scary movie 4, I know.

I think mirandas can be crossed with maxima/northiana or their hybrids ?

 

[MrAga73]

Hey Boys...
quite down....I don't think that Miranda is sterile!
This is because I recently impollinated my Nepenthes x ventrata with another plant.I got seeds and I got very few plants.....but I got the plants..ok?
SO FOLLOW THIS :
I think that miranda & ventrata are NOT STERILE but they really don't give us many seeds.
So...if I can give you tips guys..just make all impollinating operations as soon as possible....Growing percentuales are already so poor...so do all as quickly you can!
Find soon another plant with opposite sex and go on!
And also use THE MOST NUMBER og SEEDS you'll get from the mother plant to have the highest seedlings rate,ok?
I got only 4 plants from a whole stem of ventrata.
Sure...I didn't do perfectly all the steps,but I did accurate that ventrata is able to five fertile seeds.And also should miranda!!!!
In any case, why not try yourself? It could be an interessant experience,or?

Bye!

Mr_Aga
ON HOLIDAY - Italy

 

[srduggins]

If Miranda pollen is only going to give me 5 fertile seeds from an entire spike, I think I would rather use something else.

So what mechanism exists for such low fertility rates?

AFAIK, tetraploids are incompatible with diploids.

 

[Jason Wong]

That's weird, I read somewhere that supposedly many 'triploid hybrids' (diploid X tetraploid) inherit the robustness of a tetraploid, yet have hybrid vigour, thus making many award winning plants. But as no one has yet made a triploid Nepenthes, your statement might hold true for some plants, and maybe Nepenthes.

 

[Presto]

iirc, the reason many hybrids (plants or animals) are sterile is because the parents have different numbers of chromosomes.  say there are two parent species, with 14 (7 pairs) and 12 (6 pairs) of chromosomes respectively.  their sex cells would contain half the total number of chromosomes (one from each pair), so 7 chromosomes and 6 chromosomes.  put those sex cells together, 7+6=13 chromosomes.  this offspring would not be able to form viable sex cells, since the odd unpaired cell would make it impossible to divide. (assuming the parents are compatible enough that the offspring even develops in the first place!)

and, in some instances, tetraploids can indeed be paired with diploids to form triploids.  these offspring are, again, sterile due to the uneven pairing of chromosomes.  however, this sterility can be quite useful.  commercial bananas you buy in a supermarket are triploid...hence the lack of big black seeds!  same thing with seedless grapes and seedless watermelon.

one amazing thing about the plant kingdom is that pairings such as these are relatively common.  there are a few examples in the animal kingdom, but plants generally tolerate it much better.

 

[MrAga73]

Yes..incredible....
You should try to cross the Miranda with a Maxima or Mixta if i am not wrong.
You should recall it pure species again...maybe so you will have more chances of success!
Bye

Mr_Aga
Milan - ITALY