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At what point is a nep a lost cause?

I just recently got back into collecting CPs... I'd been gone too long!

Now I have a great 55 gallon tank set up as well as several window sill plants.

I have 4 neps:

1) Nepenthes Masagascariensis
2) Nepenthes Judith Finn
3) Nepenthes ventricosa
4) An unidentified highlander

Problem is, I am not sure which is which... doh!

Anyway, two of them sit on my window sill getting very little direct light but plenty of bright, indirect light that is boosted with a flourescent light. THey both seem to be slowly adjusting to the wondowsill.

Of the two that I keep in the terrarium, one is doing great.

But the other one is looking kinda sad. It's leaves aren't firm at all, kind of papery and wilted. It doesn't seem to be growing very well, if at all. None of the leaves have turned black or yellow, but it just doesn't look good

So my question is:

When is it safe to say the plant is beyond saving?

And are there any steps that I can take to save the lil guy? I realize it is difficult to advise when I can't even tell you what kind of nep it is... but any help is appreciated.

Thanks!

Chris
 
Well... if you told us temperatures, light , humidity, media, etc we could help more.

A nepenthes has to be pretty bad to be beyond saving.. and a few nepenthes have papery leaves anyways.

Do they have pitchers? If they do you could post pics. Even if not we could try to ID them by the leaves.
 
Generally speaking, a Nep is a lost cause two to three months after the entire thing is brown and crisp. However, if the growth tip goes brown and mushy, the situation is more dire, and it might be toast even if the leaves are still green in spots.
Nepenthes Around the House has a nice index of species with photos and descriptions - you should look there and see if you can't match up any of your plants. Also, if you have a camera available, you might post some pictures so we can try and ID your plants.
Since your plants are evenly split between highlanders and lowlanders, I would try to get them all into the terrarium and create a stable intermediate environment. Your plants probably won't grow at their maximum speed in this kind of setup, but it will allow you to rehab them with minimal trouble. Aim for moderate humidity (50-80%) and gentle air circulation (either by leaving the top open or adding a small fan,) and try to maintain a constant temperature of 65-70 degrees F day and night. These temps are cool enough to please highlanders, and steady conditions day-round are usually enough to convince lowlanders. If you can find some Superthrive at your local garden store, you might try watering with some of that too - Superthrive is a B-vitamin supplement for plants that encourages rooting and helps diminish shock.
Like Clint said, more info would be really helpful. Best luck!
~Joe
 
You mentioned that you could save a nep after a few months of being completely brown. How do you do that exactly?
 
How do you do that exactly?

You turn it into cuttings and hope that a dormant node turns into a new growth point. Also, you might have basal grows underground that can be brought to the surface for light and grow an new plant on the existing root system.
 
hmmm...

The nep is kept in my terrarium (as mentioned, 55 gallon tank). I have 4 flourescent tubes providing light. Two of the tubes are Ott-Lite full spectrums, one is a GE full spectrum, and I also use one Verilux.

I don't provide any additional heating (or cooling) for the tank. It gets warm and humid in there during the day (sorry, I can't provide temps at this point... still awating my digital thermometer). The tank is pretty humid!, the front window fogs up with condensation (I'm also still awaiting my terrarium fans...).

I keep a bunch of sundews (capensis, adelae, multifida extrema, filiformis ssp traci, binata) in there and they are doing great.

I also have a bunch of 'traps in there just for now. I will move them and the sarracenias outside in a month or two.

All of the plants in the terrarium are doing great except the nep.

Also, the nep is in whatever medium the plant was sent in. (It was either purchased from PetFlyTrap or CC)

I guess this probably doesn't provide enough info to really give me advice on saving the plant...

For now, I've removed it from the tanks and placed it on a grow shelf (actually a converted book shelf) under a couple of 24 inch Ott-Lite tubes.

Here are a few pics, though I doubt they are good enough to help identify the plants:

Remember, I know that I have a Nepenthes Masagascariensis, Nepenthes Judith Finn, Nepenthes ventricosa, An unidentified highlander

I just don't know which is which...

This is the plant that is doing great in the tank:
nep1.jpg


Here is a closer look at a new pitcher:
nep_pitcher.jpg


This is one of my windowsill neps, you can see he struggled to adapt (yellow leaves) but seems to be slowly coming around:
nep2.jpg


Another windowsill plant, doing pretty well. I have assumed this to be the Vetricosa:
nep3.jpg


Here is the sad looking one that I'm concerned about:
nep4.jpg


nep4_2.jpg


nep4_3.jpg


Here is the tank that the sad looking one and thriving nep live in. The sick nep is the second from the right on the bottom. The thriving nep is just above it and to the left:
terrarium_view_5.jpg


And here is my bookshelf/grow shelf (that's a D. Binata in there). This is where I was going to put the sick nep to see if a change would do it good
shelf.jpg


Thanks for the help so far everyone!
 
The sad looking nep looks like it is in shock, but it could be just a change in its environment. How long have you had it?

Did this nep dry out and you are now giving it more water? I would trim off some of the lower leaves and perhaps add some live LFS to the potting media around the base of the plant. Do you allow it to sit in a full water dish your terrarium?
 
I've had the nep for about two month, maybe a little more. The other 3 neps seem to have adjusted ok. The two windowsill plants started off in the tank, but then after checking out nepenthesaroundthehouse.com, I decided to give the windowsill a try.

So this is the only one that isn't doing well.

None of my plants ever completely dry out... ever.

I'll let all of the neps get close to dry before watering again.. I keep the soil moist but not water-logged. I don't allow water to sit in the tray as I do with my other CPs.

I thought that perhaps the heat and/or humidity of the terrarium was part of the problem, so I moved it to the shelf (as seen in the last pic of my above post) to see if it will be ok there...

Do you think I should return it to the terrarium as seedjat recommended? I'll look for some superthrive next time I head out.
 
You know.. it can be tricky with Neps as it seems they can take forever to adjust to minute changes.. but my first instinct with that plant is to move it to a windowsill and see what happens. Its obviously unhappy where it is now so really there is nothing to lose.


Good luck,
Steve
 
  • #10
Do you think I should return it to the terrarium as seedjat recommended? I'll look for some superthrive next time I head out.


I think it would benefit from the humidity back in the terrarium, but if it is too wet, you might want want the windowsill. Did you check the root system? If you have it pure peat, there could be some dryness near the roots or too much water.

I would continue to search for the problem or perhaps repot into a potting media that suits your conditions.
 
  • #11
Well, I think I'm going to half the advice from you guys... I'm not gonna put it on the windowsill and I'm not gonna put it in the tank.

I'll place it on the growshelf. Less humid than the tank, more light than the window sill.

Dave, the roots seem ok, although I really don't know what I'm looking for. Doesn't seem too wet or too dry.

You mentioned that I should trim some of the lower leaves... what is the purpose of that? I would have thought that the more leaves that remain, the more light it can take in...

Also, anyone able to match neps in the pics above to the names I provided? I'm kicking myself for throwing out the labels before I learned which was which...

live and learn I guess...

Thanks
 
  • #12
You mentioned that I should trim some of the lower leaves... what is the purpose of that? I would have thought that the more leaves that remain, the more light it can take in...

Roots that are not too dry or too wet is what you want.

Leaves do take in more more light, but the plant also uses that energy to keep those leaves working. More leaves means more water is necessary to distribute to the leaves and I think that may be part of your problem. If the roots are inadequate to support all the leaves, I think a nep looks like the one you have. Perhaps someone else can give a better explanation. When you take cuttings, you trim back some of the leaves so that more energy can be spent by the plant to establish a root system.

In all likelihood, your plant is just stressed from shipping/change in environent and is taking longer to settle in. Your plant is far from dying in my view.

On the IDs, it will become clear as the plants age and they start to put out adult pitchers.
 
  • #13
I'd put it in the tank, you've got so much room!


For starters I'd repot them. Get yourself some perlite, LFS, and fir bark. My recipe is a third of each but some people do pure LFS or 50/50 LFS/perlite and it goes on and on. Light and airy and water retentive is whatcha want. Don't sit them in water.
 
  • #14
As you know I'm a noob, so I was wondering what LFS stands for.
 
  • #15
Long Fiber Sphagnum
 
  • #16
I agree with using an airier medium. I have had neps look like that from being waterlogged - root rot.

As for IDs, I am not expert, but I would venture to guess that the first looks like Judith Finn, the second is madagascariensis, the third ones leaves look like it has some truncata mixed in, but the pitcher looks like coccinea, and the last is probably the ventricosa.

Hope this helps, I am sure will get plenty more help, we'll see how my ID s hold up.

Steve
 
  • #17
Hi Chris & everyone -

A few years ago I had problems with the soil staying too wet. After a visit to Schloaty's I noted his neps were more on the dry side than mine and looked great.

After that, when I would repot my neps - especially the pricier ones, I use a pond style basket as a pot and it has helped a great deal. They do dry out a bit faster but the plants do not seem to mind this as much as they do being too wet.

My N. hamata and N. macrophylla ,which are both very young plants that I picked up at last year's ICPS meeting, are in 4 inch pond baskets in live long fiber sphagnum.

WildBill
 
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  • #18
You mentioned that you could save a nep after a few months of being completely brown. How do you do that exactly?
It's not really a willful act on the part of the grower. I just meant to observe that - if you maintain normal, healthy growing conditions - damaged Neps, even those with no visible green remaining, will sometimes come back from the roots (or more commonly, the stem.) Realistically speaking, if a plant is totally defoliated, this is the only way it'll come back - it's beyond the point of taking cuttings. Cuttings are probably a better bet if there's still salvagable stock, but the question was when does it become a lost cause.
So far as the ID goes, my guesses are:
Pics 1 & 2: N. ventricosa. The new pitcher looks a little like madagascariensis, but ventricosa pitchers look like that too before they fully inflate. The leaves and tendrils are textbook ventricosa.
Pic 4: N. x 'Judith Finn,' perhaps. I'd recognize those vaguely fuzzy, N. vietchii-inspired leaves anywhere. But, the pitchers look a little off at the same time... I'd need to see bigger pitchers to be sure, as they're too small to show the flared peristome that vietchii hybrids inherit. They seem a little pink for the version of Judith Finn I'm familiar with.
Pic 3: Leaning towards madagascariensis for this one, though it's hard to discern between this one and the other sad one. (Does it live in the tray with those VFTs?) N. madagascariensis has those same extra rib lines along the length of the leaves, so this one is the best bet.
Others: Can't offer a guess as to which this is - there are too many species and I know too few of them.
~Joe
 
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