Chronically deformed N. ramispina

[xvart]

i think what hes trying to get across is that its a mutant...and mutants should be thrown out?

A lot of people don't like mutants because of the "infected" gene pool. Especially if you might get to the point of crossing with another plant. The hybrid would then have the mutant genes in it. I totally understand Clint's point about space and wanting a standard issue N. ramispina. There are people out there that adore mutants; however, many of us do not. Personally, a mutant is not that cool of a novelty to waste space on, especially if you are tight on space.

edit: Phission beat me to it!

why would you view a plant as an automobile?

I think it's a perfect analogy.

xvart.

 

[phissionkorps]

lol standard issue

 

[Ant]

Evolution is caused mutations! From the biological perspective and coservation perspective it should be allowed to live because without mutation the plants wouldn't exist or any other eukaryotic(spelling?) thing. Would you distroy a car with a dent if it made it look good? Really if you don't want I will take it and breed it. Oh, say if a teacher was handing out books all blue and only one green, isn't normal for most to want the green?

 

[vraev]

In that case, as u said...just trade it away clint. I am sure many people still adore the red leaves and the nice pitchers apart from that little "DENT". I don't like mutants like "bart simpson in VFT" too...but unless it was that ugly I wouldn't trade it away....let alone kill it.

uuh....mutant infected gene pool?? thats evolution my friend.... mutants have led to selection...selection has led to the wonderful diversity...the bical's teeth, the linguata (or whatever's ) elephant tongue. You never know...imagine a rasmispina with whiskers. lol! In the end yeah...its still your choice...its up to you. But don't waste a beautiful plant like that by killing it or burning it. I would have taken it off your hands ..but I already have a ramispina. I don't think mine has that bump...but its too small to even notice that.

 

[xvart]

First of all, I'm still not convinced it's a mutation. Second of all...

Evolution is caused mutations!

uuh....mutant infected gene pool?? thats evolution my friend.... mutants have led to selection...selection has led to the wonderful diversity...the bical's teeth, the linguata (or whatever's ) elephant tongue.

Thanks for the lessons on evolution, guys. I understand how evolution works. My point is that there is no evolutionary advantage to these mutants. Most likely, this "mutation," if it is actually a mutation, is because of hormones from TC, not because this N. ramispina is adapting to the standard conditions of typical grow rooms across the country.

Would you distroy a car with a dent if it made it look good?

No, I wouldn't destroy a car with a dent in it; but, it's a little more difficult to correct a small error on a plant than it is on a car; thus, making the space on a shelf infinitely more valuable.

The point about mutant Nepenthes and crossing them and "infecting" the gene pool was more in regards to other monstrous mutants, like the one shown in this thread. You want that crossed with your N. rajah's?

From the biological perspective and coservation perspective it should be allowed to live because without mutation the plants wouldn't exist or any other eukaryotic(spelling?) thing.

This plant isn't in nature my friend. This plant will have nothing to do with the evolutionary development of the Nepenthes species. Yes, mutation in the wild and natural selection helped shape and form the variety of Nepenthes species; but unfortunately, this N. ramispina will not. This plant will never be reintroduced into the wild. It will never have an impact on the family of Nepenthes. If the mutation was worse, as in the case of the link above, the only thing it will ever do it be a novelty in some growers collection; OR, it will annoy others who happen to get seed that may have been accidentally set with the mutant. AND, I'm still not clear how mutant help conservation, other than allowing one plant to live (I'll assume that's what you meant).

but unless it was that ugly I wouldn't trade it away....let alone kill it.

Would you trade it away if it would make available space for another plant that you really want?

Oh, say if a teacher was handing out books all blue and only one green, isn't normal for most to want the green?

Ummm... what? If there was someone handing out cars after school and all of them were nice and new and one of them was a banged up, dented, piece of crap; isn't it normal for most to want the piece of crap? Just because something is, dare I say, unique, does not make it more valuable or increase it's demand. It's a novelty; not the next Mona Lisa.

Ughh... Sorry to get off topic in your thread, Clint. Does anyone else have experience with a N. ramispina of similar size? Is it actually a mutation or just growing conditions?

xvart.

 

[vraev]

yeah! but this "little" "feature" is no where in comparision with that other mutant you refer to. As u can see its a plant thats thriving and looks fantastic. BTW....no if that was my plant I wouldn't trade it away as apart from that "unique" dent...its still a good ramispina with wonderful red leaves.

Whatever, its Clint's choice with it being his plant. So I guess there is no point of us trying to argue about what he should do with it.

BTW....I have a ramispina...maybe not that size...but it doesn't show a dent like that. I ahve seen wild ramispina pics and hundreds of other ramispina pics but I have never seen that dent in any of them.

 

[xvart]

yeah! but this "little" "feature" is no where in comparision with that other mutant you refer to.

You are correct. If you recall, the only reason I mentioned the other mutants was because there was some dispute about why in heaven's name someone would not want a mutant plant.

Whatever, its Clint's choice with it being his plant. So I guess there is no point of us trying to argue about what he should do with it.

You are exactly right. I was never arguing what Clint should do with the plant. I could really care less. I read Clint's post, and as such, I was able to decode the message between the lines when he said he would rather have another plant instead because he lacks sufficient growing space for more than one.

BTW....I have a ramispina...maybe not that size...but it doesn't show a dent like that. I ahve seen wild ramispina pics and hundreds of other ramispina pics but I have never seen that dent in any of them.

So I wonder if it is some specific environmental factors that cause the plant to do this. Granted, one person said it was only on one pitcher, and then someone else said it was on all pitchers. Maybe the plants mentioned all came from the same source and there was something that happened while in TC. It is a good looking plant. It certainly has grown a lot since it left my hands. I think it actually likes me better than you, Clint!

xvart.

 

[MrFus]

The plant dont look so bad at all...

But I can figure for some people this plant will not be part of the collection because is a mutant, and even if the plant have all the physical characteristics that a healty one should show, the mutation is still not natural... I guess some people will not collect non natural hybrids too...

I will keep it, just for the love to the plants...
But I agree on the fact that this mutants should dont be propagated to avoid any risk of get it accidentaly or intentionaly crossed with other nepenthes and get really deform mutations.

And plus is the point of the room too.

 

[DrWurm]

I'd take an ugly mutant plant. I think imperfections and uniqueness are cool, and not a "waste of space." I think the dent looks pretty interesting. I mean, as long as you don't let it breed with any other plants, it's not gonna hurt anyone.

 

[Ant]

Well the plant isn't a banged up car, its looks great. How do you know that wont aid the plant in catching bugs? Isn't it smooth and maybe the insects will land on thinking it is solid ground and fall off. If a mutation is bad for the plant they die out when it is good for the plant it carries on its genes. There is something called natural selection and it will make sure good genes go on and bad ones die. I don't really care what he does with it.

 

[mathias]

Hi,

I think this is a totally normal ramispina, mine is showing the same dent, in variable occurance. Surf around on CP Photofinder and you will see plants with dent just like this one!

 

[Clint]

You guys seem personally offended that I would not want this plant Ant, your points made about this characteristic aren't really valid at all. None of my plants catch any bugs, other than perhaps a few fungus gnats, the inside wall is slippery anyway, a mutation doesn't have to be good or bad, and this plant is in cultivation. It's a clone. Probably the same as Jayson's. There is no natural selection in a terrarium in a basement. An odd pitcher with a dent isn't that big of a deal, but every single pitcher since I've had it? I mean... come on! I want a dent less plant. I just looked at a lot of pics on the photo finder, and while I did find dented pitchers, the majority had dent less pitchers. This is, IMO, what it should look like:

http://www.nepenthesaroundthehouse.com/nramisp.htm

 

[DrWurm]

Guess you're gonna have to send it to me.

 

[CP_dude]

or me!

 

[JRFxtreme]

Hey Clint, you ever thought about just "popping" the dent out?

But what if that monstrosity was allowed to breed? Think of the consequences. (literally...think about them...from a biological/conservation perspective)

Just cross it with aristolochioides and the problem should work itself out..

 

[Clint]

I tried lol. Didn't work that way!

Notice how everyone says they'd take it, but only one person has offered to trade lol.

 

[xvart]

Well the plant isn't a banged up car, its looks great.

In your opinion! I cannot possibly comprehend how difficult it is to understand that some people have different preferences about plants they may or may not want! It's a very simple concept.

How do you know that wont aid the plant in catching bugs? Isn't it smooth and maybe the insects will land on thinking it is solid ground and fall off. If a mutation is bad for the plant they die out when it is good for the plant it carries on its genes. There is something called natural selection and it will make sure good genes go on and bad ones die. I don't really care what he does with it.

And you tried to explain biology to me earlier? Did you read my previous point? Here it is again in case you missed it:

This plant isn't in nature my friend. This plant will have nothing to do with the evolutionary development of the Nepenthes species. Yes, mutation in the wild and natural selection helped shape and form the variety of Nepenthes species; but unfortunately, this N. ramispina will not. This plant will never be reintroduced into the wild. It will never have an impact on the family of Nepenthes.

This plant will have ZERO effect on advancing Nepenthes evolution. Unless, of course, this random mutation brought on by hormone imbalances from TC has a hidden gene attached to it that causes 60% of seed to be female! Then, Clint could carefully breed this plant with other N. ramispinato pass that gene on so that some portion of the seed could then possibly have that trait, too. Then If we are able to discern which of those seedlings also carried the gene we could then cross them as well, etc. etc. Eventually, maybe we'll have helped the N. ramispina population by creating a species that will yield much higher female seed rates! However, that's not evolution. That's selective breeding.

The point is this: evolution does not occur passing a plant around from grow area to grow area. Cultivated, mutated plants are not the missing link in Nepenthes environments. They are just a novelty that some people like and some people don't!

xvart.

 

[Ant]

How is a dent a novelty! Its not like it has two trendals per leaf every time. I don't really care if it is a captive plant because if the mutation(we don't even know if it is one because I am only in 8th grade and just started talking about mutant genes and what not). It wouldn't effect conservation anyway, I was just responding to what sounded like people saying "what if it was in nature". Shouldn't we be trying to help him fix it if is enviomental? I would love to take the plant, how much $ should it cost.

 

[xvart]

How is a dent a novelty!

I was using the word novelty very loosely - in the sense of it being new, or different.

If this isn't environmental, I'm going to have to trade it away.

Is it an easy plant cause I would take it.

If it is one I would love to have it.

hey, if you don't want a dented one, i'll take it, i'll fight ant for it, haha

Really if you don't want I will take it and breed it.

Guess you're gonna have to send it to me.

or me!

I would love to take the plant, how much $ should it cost.

If and when Clint decides to trade it away I assume he will post it in the trade forum.

xvart.

 

[Ant]

Well he asked me though my mom said I couldn't because she doesn't have enough money in the bank.