Want to grow Highland/UltraHi Nepenthes ?

[GrowinOld]

Hello all you who want to grow Highland/ultra highland Nepenthes...

I am soliciting opinions at this time, And I can use YOUR help and input!
I may have the opportunity in the future to build and produce Highland terrariums
that are nearly fully automatic.
I have been researching these for some time now,
and having a background in design engineering, I have come up with a few
innovative designs and improvements to such a unit, that I believe can solve
the "Highland" growing difficulties encountered by so many people.
I am now testing out one of my prototype units and am working on designing
another. So far things are looking very good. (Sorry, no Pictures yet.)

In order to complete my research at this time,
I would like to find out what the general consensus is concerning
what users and "customers" like yourselves are looking for in a
nice terrarium capable of growing these "demanding" yet fascinating plants.

YOU, every one of you who has even remotely thought of wanting to grow these
plants, can provide an important thought and opinion possibly affecting how (and if)
I proceed in designing these units in the future. Even the most inexperienced grower
can offer me valuable ideas, considerations and opinions.
So please, anyone and everyone, take a moment to reply or PM me on your thoughts.

(Also, just please try to keep this relatively reasonable and serious.)
I am soliciting the opinions of you, the mainstream of amateur/professional growers
and "wanna-bies", as it is your opinion that matters to me.

And while telling me that you want a grow chamber the size of Hawaii and
your wanting it to cost $5 is funny (and ideal), there are many people that ARE seriously
interested in one and I believe I have something that can help the average person, easily
grow these wonderful plants.
While it is nice to finally be able to buy such rare plants, I think it is important
to not just be able to keep these plants alive, but to keep them thriving!

I would appreciate any input you may have as far as your "wants" are concerned.
In general, what are you looking for? GO into any features, details, etc. as you want...
as any information you can provide as to your wants in looking for a unit like this
might be.
As we are from all over the country/world, everyone will have specific needs and wants
based on their local conditions. Make your opinion count.

For example and to get you started:

What are you looking for in a Highland/Ultra-highland Terrarium?

Near Fully-Automatic?
How much dedicated work and time do you want to put in to your plants?
Is it worth the extra money for you to have something
more "automatic" and "undemanding"?

Appearance?
Want something nice for the living-room and for everyone to admire,
or just something to shove in the corner of your basement?
(Such as...as long as it works, who cares how it looks!)


How large of a unit (dimensions) would you be interested in?
(Think about this realistically...If you are putting this in your living room,
do you really have room for one 4 feet high, 3 feet deep and 6 feet wide?)
And if you are only really wanting to grow a few N.Villosa's, wouldn't one
2 ft x 18" fit nicely in a corner of your kitchen better?

Being reasonable and honest, about how much would you be willing or able
to pay for such a unit as you have described?
I wouldn't base pricing on your answer at all, however, component costs (even wholesale)
and labor involved may make production of these impossible at a reasonable price.
However we all have different ideas of what "reasonable" is!

Would you prefer one for placing in a window, receiving natural sunlight, or
use artifical lighting?

Any other thoughts, opinions or ideas you might want to throw out there would be appreciated.
My goal in this venture is to provide growers with the tools they need to keep their plants thriving.
(Also, hopefully to assist in my making a living doing that.)

I have already spent much time and resources in researching this out,
and in "inventing", designing and creating a Terrarium that I think will solve
many of the problems encountered by the average grower today.

Thanks in advance... for your opinions and input.
Paul
GrowinOld

By the way, I placed this "thread" here... where I felt that the people who are
really interested in growing the N.Highlands will be looking, for it is YOUR opinion that I want.

(If everything goes well, I will keep you posted as to how things are proceeding.)

 

[Dave S.]

I would want a a highland terrarium that is easy to get in and out of for watering. Currently, I have to move the lights each time I water on some terrariums. It should be tall and wide for nepenthes and look good in a living room. I would prefer to grow my plants in my main living area, but my cold basement makes the most sense for now. I would expect it to be partially-insulated to keep it cool and to keep energy cost down, but have glass to view the plants as well. A temperature range of 55F at night and 75F in the day would be ideal for me and it is the most difficult element to the project.

I would want T5 and LED lights to be integrated into the overall design with fans to keep the T5's from heating up the tank too much. There should be a misting system and perhaps a watering system built in. There should be shelves that can be raised or lowered as the plants grow. It should be a range of sizes as highland plants should get big over time. I would want fans that pull air in at the bottom and and push air out near the top for air-movement.

There should be a way to easily drain excess water and perhaps have a cabinet underneath for storage of water bottles, plant food, etc, potting mix, etc.

I would pay over $1,000 for the highland terrarium as described above, but I assume it would cost more as I have not seen a highland tank like this for sale.

 

[Av8tor1]

all I would add to Dave's parameters would be over temp and high water protection. Last thing you want is cooked plants or flooded livingroom.

Personally, I am going to use a PLC to control mine... I already have the controller, inlet valves, misting nozzles, pressure reg etc. That way I can customize the parameters as I see fit and access/control it via the internet.

Everything should be "off the shelf" items as well, no special components that cannot be found locally and quickly in case of failure.

e.g., common dishwasher float switch, water inlet vavle from an ice maker, common thermal fuse or thermal disc from home clothes dryers, etc etc

no need to reinvent the wheel

electronickits.com has some really nice items that may of value

Av

 

[BigBella]

Ideally, you should have full access to plants and the terrarium / case should allow for the installation of lighting, misting systems, for draining, and some exhaust fan -- and should be, for all intents and purposes, automatic. Currently, there are Edwardian Cases or what is marketed as an "orchidarium" available at the following site and they are quite attractive as furniture. I've seen some in "fancy-schmancy" offices overseas:

http://www.orchidarium.com.

They currently range in price from around 800.00 to 2500.00 for all of the bells and whistles . . .

 

[Jefforever]

AHH. Highland tanks are such a pain. I've got a minifridge with a metal coil (found in cars) that has water go through it.

It cools down the water a bit, but not enough. My Macrophylla, Izumea, helis, Lowii, etc seem fine though.

The fridge also makes a loud buzzing noise, so somebody keeps turning it off...

It's probably off like 200 nights a year.

 

[DroseraBug]

Hello all you who want to grow Highland/ultra highland Nepenthes...


For example and to get you started:

What are you looking for in a Highland/Ultra-highland Terrarium?

Cool nightime temps in the hot summers of the southeastern U.S.

Near Fully-Automatic?
How much dedicated work and time do you want to put in to your plants?
Is it worth the extra money for you to have something
more "automatic" and "undemanding"?

Would like to be able to set any temp and/or humidity regulators on timers.

Appearance?
Want something nice for the living-room and for everyone to admire,
or just something to shove in the corner of your basement?
(Such as...as long as it works, who cares how it looks!)

It would not have to be extravagent but decent looking would be nice.

How large of a unit (dimensions) would you be interested in?
(Think about this realistically...If you are putting this in your living room,
do you really have room for one 4 feet high, 3 feet deep and 6 feet wide?)
And if you are only really wanting to grow a few N.Villosa's, wouldn't one
2 ft x 18" fit nicely in a corner of your kitchen better?

36" long, 24" deep, and 3' high

Being reasonable and honest, about how much would you be willing or able
to pay for such a unit as you have described?
I wouldn't base pricing on your answer at all, however, component costs (even wholesale)
and labor involved may make production of these impossible at a reasonable price.
However we all have different ideas of what "reasonable" is!

$475+ depending on hourly rate, lighting not included

Would you prefer one for placing in a window, receiving natural sunlight, or
use artifical lighting?

artificial light of my choice

Any other thoughts, opinions or ideas you might want to throw out there would be appreciated.
My goal in this venture is to provide growers with the tools they need to keep their plants thriving.
(Also, hopefully to assist in my making a living doing that.)

One idea if you haven't already thought of this would be an adjustable shelf or two within the terrarium to allow the grower to shift plants up or down depending on there relative size and maturity.

I have already spent much time and resources in researching this out,
and in "inventing", designing and creating a Terrarium that I think will solve
many of the problems encountered by the average grower today.

Thanks in advance... for your opinions and input.
Paul
GrowinOld

By the way, I placed this "thread" here... where I felt that the people who are
really interested in growing the N.Highlands will be looking, for it is YOUR opinion that I want.

(If everything goes well, I will keep you posted as to how things are proceeding.)

Thanks and keep us posted.

 

[GrowinOld]

Update & My Thanks!

Hello Again,

My thanks to you Dave S., Av8tor1 and BigBella, and even DroseraBug & Jefforever!
Out of 167 people who have viewed this post so far, only the 5 of you have bothered to
offer your opinions or ideas! Please know that I GREATLY appreciate YOUR help
and input in this! I had hoped for more input, but perhaps you 5 have covered it all.

I don't know what the future holds for me in terrarium design and sales,
however so far I am reassured by what you all wrote, that I am absolutely
on the right track. I also believe that once I am finished, you will definitely
like what you see! (I don't know if the 145 other people who didn't bother
to give their opinions will like it, but then they can't say I didn't try!)

So far, I have pretty much everything automated on the terrarium.
(Well, compared to most people's set-ups.) While there are still some
technical restrictions and much testing and tweaking of things left to do,
overall the unit is working pretty nicely. It's relatively compact, self contained, and
addresses most of the concerns that have been brought up. Cost is still an issue,
however I am still working on that too.

I also am a "standard and readily available parts" kind of guy, as Av8tor1 mentioned,
which is one of the reasons I got out of engineering... as every company seemed to
want to use "their" "unique-custom" parts, and I didn't agree with that kind of thinking.
It seems however, that my 25 years in design engineering may soon be of help
to CP growers and the plants they grow..

I am designing the terrarium so even a total novice can use it successfully.
That is my goal in creating these (besides helping my making a living), is to offer
ANYONE a better chance to successfully grow Highland Nep's and related
orchids/plants. Other than some basic maintenance, I don't see the need for
normal folks to have to worry about things like running tubes or wires to create the
needed humidity, temperatures and such. Your interests are in growing these
amazing plants, not necessarily in plumbing, heating, ventilation, lighting and so on.
While some people enjoy the challenge of devising a grow chamber better than others,
other people would rather be enjoying their plants and watching them grow and thrive.

There does seem to be many opinions out there concerning using natural sunlight
from a window or artificial lights. (I may have to let people have the option
to decide their own lighting solution, while still providing "how-to" information
to do it successfully and "automatically" in sync with the rest of the unit.

I am also wondering about peoples views on Plastic or glass?
I know there is concern about light transmission thru plastics and whether it is as
beneficial to the plants as glass is (and vice versa), and also about its durability.
I have always been a "glass-man" myself, as it is readily available, inexpensive,
strong and scratch resistant. However, plastic is in many ways more versatile,
easier to work with and lighter and durable to ship.

I did look at the fancy-schmancy"-"orchidariums" BigBella mentioned,
and looked up the sizes they offer. (I have also seen other places that offer
even larger sizes.) In general however, While I think they are really nice,
I don't think most people can fit the larger ones into their living rooms or "decorative"
schemes. At least not without their wives divorcing them!

Dave S., you gave me a very good description of what you would like.
You took my request seriously and make me want to hear more!
ANY other thoughts you may have, I am all ears!
(Specifics especially! Wood/Metal? Glass/Plastic? Dimensions! Anything!)

Right now the prototype I have built (and currently testing) is about
24"w x 15"d x 25"h inside dimensions. The "refrigeration" equipment does not add
too much to the units size compared to what others are doing, however
it does add some bulk to the unit. It is still relatively small and nice, however getting
it down to compact size does have its limitations on the cooling end.
It currently cools to about 60 degrees at night (however I can't seem to get
accurate readings using 5 different thermometers [that were claimed to be
highly "accurate"]....I get 5 different readings! Some say as low as 48, others 60),
and during the daytime up to 75-80.

The humidity also, regulated, adjustable and fully automatic.
(It is however a very un-conventional, new design I created.
Simple yet proving to be very effective!)
I have ignored it over a week so far and it is doing the job.

Lighting is currently both window and fluorescent supplemented.
The window lighting has created some intensity/heat issues, which I foolishly
ignored the common sense I normally use (the sun seemed to have cooked
my N. Macrophylla a bit in the beginning) however overall things are recovering
and getting back on track.

The real test for me coming up, is that I am having someone house-sit for us
for a couple weeks, during which time they will be doing "nothing" as far as
taking care of the plants that are inside. After setting it up before I leave,
if it passes that test I assume that will be "automated" enough for most of you!
And to be honest, other than watch things and track temp. and humidity
measurements and making sure everything is working right,
I haven't done all that much these past few weeks anyway.
From what I see, I am pretty close to having things as automated as possible!

I am now getting my larger and "improved" version designed, drawn-up and started.
I know it will take a lot of research and more testing before I get into actually
producing these, but I know I can eventually offer you more for your money
than whats currently out there.

Just for fun, here's a picture of the shabby terrarium I built about 16 years ago
(and rebuilt after cutting it down in size about 10 years ago!).

It's held up all those years, and being made from scrap wood, plastic sheeting
and glass, isn't bad considering the humidity and use its been under!
Sorry it's such a bad/dark picture. No, it didn't have the automatic humidity system
at the time, but it does now. (Doesn't have the cooling/refrigeration system
nor any lights. It was for low/intermediate use and has definitely served me well.)

My Thanks again to you who have taken the time to give your opinions.
I will try to post again with updates to let you know how things are going in the future.
If you (or anyone else) have ANY further thoughts or comments on this,
I would appreciate it.

I know I am still in the beginning stages of this venture and that my future with it
is uncertain. However, things are looking very good so far!

Paul

 

[Tony Paroubek]

I have no need for such a structure so don't have alot to add. But I think if you are going to focus on a unit that will cool highland plants it is imperative that you not only maintain temperature readings inside the unit but simultaneous readings outside. It isn't enough to say it will hit 60 degrees at night. Is that if the room is 65? 80?? What is the units ability to drop temperature over ambient room temperature? That is a much more important measure. Can you expect a 10degree drop? 15? 25? Some people may only need 10 or 15 while others may need 25 or 30. Perhaps they want to grow ultrahighland like N. villosa!


Regarding the sun.. It's HOT as you noticed. And not all that reliable for many. What happens if the unit is sitting in a window and the cooling/venting system fails? Nice to think green but promoting the use of sunlight for an enclosed grow chamber opens up a host of difficulties and potential problems with temperature control, daylength etc. Lighting will still be needed as the sun coming through a window is usually only for a short period of time during the day. The lighting will need to supply the proper intensity for when the sun isn't around anyway.. so all that you accomplish really is maybe having the lighting system off for a few hours while the sun is there. Provided you can overcome the heating issues. And while I am not a electrical engineer, it would seem to me that it will cost a whole lot more in energy use to run a cooling system trying to combat heat buildup from the sun vs some efficient high intensity lights.

 

[Dave S.]

>Dave S., you gave me a very good description of what you would like.
>You took my request seriously and make me want to hear more!
>ANY other thoughts you may have, I am all ears!
>(Specifics especially! Wood/Metal? Glass/Plastic? Dimensions! Anything!)

I have given this topic a lot of thought over the years, especially as my plants outgrow the converted fishtanks I primarily use. I move them to grow racks, but I lose some humidity in my current setup. I would buy either metal or wood, but I would certainly prefer glass to plastic. I think it is looks better and it is more clear to view the plants.

I built a lowland terrarium for a corner in my office (wood/glass) that is roughly 6' tall and 4' wide and 3' deep; the scale I am looking for is big. I want to have large highland nepenthes plants vine and flower without having to cut them back. I would like the lights running vertically, top to bottom, to maximize the plant growth throughout the terrarium.

The more automated, the better; setting lights, cooling, humidity control and watering on timers.

The market for this type of terrarium could also extend to people who grow cool-growing orchids.

If you have additional questions you would like me to address. please let me know.

 

[Tony Paroubek]

Have you considered some of the rigid greenhouse glazing? Maybe for the nonviewing sides? Like 8mm polycarbonate or dynaglass or something? You would need a framework to support it but double or triple wall polycarbonate would help with insulating a bit also.

 

[Tony Paroubek]

Folks have been making chilled grow chamber for highland/cloudforest orchids for some time. Here is one

http://forum.theorchidsource.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=004762

 

[rattler]

if i were to buy one as apposed to making one after making sure it works and can do a 25-30 degree drop from ambient room temps would be appearance....i can make something that works.....my issue is making something that works AND looks nice so the wife will let me put it where i want rather than keeping it in my plant room in the basement.........also having lived in the boondocks almost my whole life, as simple as you can make the system and have it work the better, manual overrides to any automatic systems are a must.....why? cause if something goes down im going to have to fix it with what is available........aint going to spend $1,000 on something(reasonable cost for a large one, figure ill have bout $600 or so in materials into my homemade one, though im thinking of a 3x4x4 foot chamber or bigger) and if some automatic switch goes down ive got to wait 2 weeks to get a part in.....a manual over ride so i can flip a switch to turn the lights on or off or such without turning of the humidity or cooling systems or any combination there of is a HUGE plus..........

 

[Av8tor1]

Tempered glass with a modular design philosophy. That way someone could start off with a basic unit and upgrade as funding permits, or needs require.

Av

 

[rattler]

other than looking nice and having a large viewing/access window in the front ive got no real input on how to make one or what to use.....i know what I would do to make one for myself but i aint an engineer nor do i nessisarily have access to some of the better materials, just know what i would do give to what i have access to here, in BFE, 100 miles from the nearest Walmart, 300 from the nearest Home Depot or Lowes.....havent made one yet cause i havent figured out how to convince the wife i need a freezer that wont be used to store meat in

 

[HyDxSiJiu]

oh, highland terrarium.. i have a question, i have a lowland terrarium, temperature about 85 when 2X20 watts flourscents lights is on, and the night time temperature is about 70-75 take quite a few hours for the temperature to drop, what happen if i grow a highland nepenthe in a lowland terrarium? please answer i need to kno lol,

highland terrarium is diffcult... to keep the terrarium around 65 - 70 degree i think the cheapest way is place the terarium next to a air conditon, which allow the cold air cool off the temperature in the terrarium ( covered) from our side the terrarium or cool of the flourscent light lol, i will try this idea when i get my cheap highland terrarium done, and run a few test on it
OR
use those CPU cooler which u can find inside the PC attached to the mother board or get one from almost anyone where u can find PC, its very cheap. and get the fan also. that will keep the air circulation runing and cool airs going! make sure use adaptor, or u will explode the fan

LIGHT
buy few LED solar panel lights for the walkway ( notes the light level is low but its focus in one small area so i don't think it will do any harm to ur plant, change the solar panel to a adaptor which u can find from cell phone adaptor? modem adaptor? anything at least its a adaptor , to keep the LED light run at same level alll day long! without fainting the light level! change the flourscents light to LED can massively change ur highland terrariums temperature.

for all these item its less then 100$ =] 50$ u can get a 50 gallons from PETSMART/PETCO
50 gallons tank cover should be around 20 ~ 30 $ (glass)

=] correct me if i m wrong

 

[Jefforever]

Highland nepenthes will not grow in a lowland terrarium. Intermediates might though.

 

[cmm889]

Hey, Appreciate the thread I think its a really great idea that someone has been needing to address, hopefully you can take care of it so we can grow our plants and you can add alittle monthly income

eitherway, my only real thoughts since I'm not an engineer and master of all the materials listed...

-I think the glass is a better way to go at least for the front.
- I think you should assume they will get no additional sunlight and that light will be fully artificial.
- Appearance is a big deal for those who are married and in family situations where it would be nice for someone with the background to create something we can put out for everyone to see ( I shamefully look at my shabby thrifty wirefilled tank )
- Maybe options as far as the level for automated-ness? not everyone will have the same budget guidelines or may already have things they can use, or may want to "tweak" in their own personal way, offering a more basic package to a delux package I think would be a great option and allow you to recieve more business...

as far as lighting is concerned it'd be hard for me to say what you should use, T-5's are so great yet pose such a heat problem especially for HL's, ( of course that can be dealt with if thoroughly thought out ) LED's may be a great option to pursue? their smaller can sometimes be found for cheap and can be incredibly intense...

I've also seen people work wonders with CFL's and I dont mean in a shoplight fixture type of way, but I've seen great homemade hoods with 6 or 8 standard home fixtures in a great esthetically pleasing housing. using these would allow people to easily replace if necessary, their also cheap, space efficient and can yield great results...

I know my thoughts werent all encompassing but I didnt want to be guilty of reading and not posting my opinions.

Thanks again for posting.
Chris

 

[Nepfreak]

I'm probably your perfect "sucker" customer because I'm just not that handy . The bottom line is, I'd like something that works no matter the outside environment. If the chamber cools down to the 50s at night no matter what, that would be good enough for me to consider buying it. Of course, automation would be great and if it looks nice, even better. But the top priority is effectiveness. For instance, I'd rather have an ugly metal box that cools down to 51 degrees every night than a pretty glass showcasey thing that cools down to 65. Regarding cost... I'm only 15 years old so I can't exactly afford a thousand dollar setup. To me, 100 dollars is a million and another ten a miracle. Nevertheless, I can see why a very good chamber could reasonably cost $1000 or more.

 

[GrowinOld]

Thanks and a Free Treat!

Hello again all,
Thank you again for all your input. You have no idea how much your "sincere" input helps in designing things such as this.

Nepfreak, I can certainly understand your situation. I am looking into the wholesale costs of "parts" and manufacturing. It is a bit depressing, however I am not letting some corporate overpricing get in the way. I am doing my best to find a way to keep the price of these units down as low as I can. (While I want to make an honest living, I don't want to be ripping off "15 year olds" to do it!)

cmm889, You don't need to be an engineer to have good ideas! That's part of the reason I asked everyone here for an opinion. Even 15 yr. olds have something important to say about this subject, and I value the opinions of those who are doing the actual growing (or wanting to grow) these plants.

Rattler_mt, Tony, and everyone else.... I am glad you all decided to write. So far out of 376 people who were interested enough to read this thread, only 17 of you felt your opinion was of any value or bothered to take the time to write.
My real concern down the line is if there is much of an "audience" for these units. It is going to be a lot of work and expense for me if I only end up selling 17 of these things!

By the way, a little treat for some of you.... an idea I wanted to share:
(Disclaimer/Note: If you aren't "handy", building your own equiptment can be extremely dangerous! This information is being presented for discussion and information exchange only. Actual application should be carefully considered by those of you who are qualified to build and test such units, and I cannot be held responsible for any negative situation arising from the actual building, application and use of these. I have NOT built and or tested these, and the ideas shown herein are for information/idea exchange only. Build one at your own risk!)

I do know that many of you are doing "plastic wrapped, wire shelf units" for growing. I also have been reading a lot of you are having problems with the heat your lights are producing, and how to vent these without loosing the much needed humidity inside.

I have a few ideas on how to deal with this situation, and have drawn up a rough sketch of one of them for consideration. I am not trying to make money off of this! (Just wanted to share a little something with those of you who have bothered to write and help me out with your opinions.)

I don't know if/how this would work out for you, but it is a simple way to isolate the outside air form the inside air. The excess heat from the lamps is "bad", so it needs to be handled as outside air. Running metal exhaust duct (from the hardware store) across the shelf unit, sticking out of the plastic on both sides, and cutting a hole in it to accomodate the ballast portion of the lamp will assist in removing the heat generated by the ballast and a little bit of the heat produced bt the lamps themselves. Some of the heat produced bt the bulbs will still heat the inside of the chamber however, and your results will vary depending on the type/design of fixture you are using.

If you do a good job caulking with the appropriate temp. caulking, you should effectively isolate the inside humid air from the outside air. A 5' piece of duct shoud accomodate shelves under 5'wide. A "muffin" fan at the end serves to draw the heated air out of the duct, without pulling the humidified air from within the chamber.

If you remove the bulbs, caulk the fixture into the metal duct, let dry and replace bulbs after installing duct/light fixture, the seal should be complete.

(If you cannot understand the diagram, you should not be trying to make this anyway!) Do be careful working with sheetmetal (VERY sharp!). And do NOT depend on the caulking to support the weight of the fixture itself. Chains, wire or other support brackets should be used for ALL items of appreciable weight.

If you have any opinions on this, please feel free to express them. Especially if you think it will help you out or find that it does. Again, I do not have a setup like this, so do not have one in use anyway, nor do I need one, so making and testing it is something I have not done.

Well, to those of you who have written, thanks again for all of your help thus far. I will possibly be in touch with some of you in the future, and will try to post again when I can.

Good Growing!
Paul

 

[rattler]

lol......love all your warnings.......told the wife the last thing we do after remodeling the bedroom is lay carpet....cause blood will be spilled and i dont want yah yelling at me for getting blood on your new carpet :grin:

like i said i can make something that works, im very good at jerry rigging bout anything so that it will get the job done but it winds up looking like some half arsed backwoods hillbilly setup(which it is).....so when im buying something apposed to making im looking at looks.....have to say may biggest worry is reliably cooling the tank to 50 in a room with an ambiant temp of 90-95(80 is the norm high but have to look at likely worst case senarios)....and doing so without killing my electric bill......to badly anyways.....would think it would have to be insulated fairly well on all sides and ideally have double pane windows for viewing........yah know the more i think about it i have no clue how yah would go about building units in the size i want in anyway but a custom basis...........interested to see what yah might come up with, even rough prototypes.........