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Nepenthes hybrid...

I've been wandering what kind of a hybrid a Nepenthes bicalcarata crossed with a Nepenthes hamata would make, sadly I cant seem to find any photos or information on it. I'd imagine the hybrid would be an intermediate since the parents are an ultra lowlander and a highlander. Has anyone ever seen such a specimen?
 
N. hamata crossed with N. hamata would not be a hybrid. I'm assuming you meant something else and just typed N. hamata twice on accident.

xvart.
 
N. hamataXN. hamata=N. hamata!!
 
Um, do you mean bical x hamata perhaps? Intermediate would be a good guess, but if they're as delicate as their reputations put them up to be, their hybrids could turn out finicky as well. It's hard for me to believe that no one has tried it before - maybe they just aren't compatible. As to what it would look like, it's hard to predict. Doubtful that the teeth would show up much.
~Joe
 
WOOPS! That's what lack of sleep will do to you : S
Yes i definitely meant to ask about N. bicalcarata and N. Hamata, sorry for the typo!

And I agree with you seedjar I was surprised that there was no information, maybe it is picky. Maybe a try of both crosses where one is the pollen donor and the other is the recipient and vice versa would give a possible hybrid??
 
I've never seen a bical crossed with a hamata however i managed to purchase a bical crossed with merrilliana from EP here in Australia last year.It's already showing a lot of promise.
 
Um, do you mean bical x hamata perhaps? Intermediate would be a good guess, but if they're as delicate as their reputations put them up to be, their hybrids could turn out finicky as well. It's hard for me to believe that no one has tried it before - maybe they just aren't compatible. As to what it would look like, it's hard to predict. Doubtful that the teeth would show up much.
~Joe

hamata is only delicate when young.....once it gains some size its practically a weed....its just tends to be kinda touchy about low humidity when small and not every one agrees on this, some have had young ones that seem pretty tough.....would be an interesting cross but im thinking it might be mainly bical looking with spotted pitchers and a ridged peristrome....hamatas teeth dont tend to be prominent in crosses and the amp x bical i had(or was it the reverse?) barely had lil nubs where the fangs would be....still be interesting to see what happens, bicals large size and speedy growth coupled with hamatas mottled pitchers and who knows maybe it will have more prominent teeth than some other hamata hybrids.......
 
Hopefully we'll eventually get some more edwardsiana family hybrids. I think they'd be the ones to look out for.
 
for the fangs you would proably have to backcross so it would be (bical(bicalXhamata) and then you could add in some lingulata so it hopefully would have the tounge from lingulata, teeth of hamata, and fangs of bical.
 
  • #10
As to the original post, the reason you can't find any pictures is because it hasn't (publicly) been crossed, yet. There aren't a lot of flowering N. hamata's out there, and odds are not great that one of the three most popular N. hamata clones are female is slim (I know one is male, and I thought one other was, too... Not sure about the third).

xvart.
 
  • #11
hamata is only delicate when young.....once it gains some size its practically a weed....its just tends to be kinda touchy about low humidity when small and not every one agrees on this, some have had young ones that seem pretty tough.....
I guess "demanding" or "particular" would be better terms. The results of folks like you and elgecko show that it can be a reliable plant, but it does have some specific cultural needs. It's hardier than people give credit, but it's not bombproof either.
~Joe
 
  • #12
Yeah definitely not a cross that has happened yet. It would be an amazing hybrid, no doubt.
My guess is that it would have a pretty rotund shape, with narly splotches and great coloration, maybe a really big plant. Bical is not finicky at all as long as it's really hot, so my guess is it would be a really strong plant.

Hamata's teeth probably wouldn't be much of anything, but I would bet that the fangs would be at least partially there, seeing as they are just part of the peristome, and Hamata has an equally as narly peristome, so probably you wold see at least some sort of spikish appendage where the lid meets peristome.

Who knows, definitely sounds awesome though, especially if you were to back cross again with the parents.
 
  • #13
I guess "demanding" or "particular" would be better terms. The results of folks like you and elgecko show that it can be a reliable plant, but it does have some specific cultural needs. It's hardier than people give credit, but it's not bombproof either.
~Joe

given only a handful of species are bomb proof that really doesn t say much.......if you can provide intermediate temps and decent humidity your good to go......if you cant do that add hamata to a LOOOOOONG list of species you cant grow.......anyone that doesnt have pure lowland conditions, can provide decent humidity and has moved on and been successful with species neps other than those sold at big box stores should be fine with growing hamata....it aint demanding or terribly particular when compared to most other species.....infact it falls in the middle of the pack......is it bomb proof? no.......but VERY few pure species are.........
 
  • #14
At the risk of sounding slightly stupid I would be willing to go so far as to say that any species that can reliably be grown as a window sill plant is about as close to bomb proof as you are going to get. I have a ventricosa and a hamata growing side by side on a window sill. Everyone will tell you that vantricosa is bomb proof so it seems more than a little silly to call hamata "frail" or "sensitive" or "demanding" when it can grow under the same conditions...

Granted I have 10 years of growing under my belt and I do not recommend that a newbie who has never grown a single Nep go out and grab up a hamata and plop it out. I would not recommend they do that with any Nep until they have a feel for the genus as a whole. But this stigma that hamata is dancing on eggshells fragile is just silly.
 
  • #15
well i dont know if your and elgecko's window sills count as a test for rating neps bomb proof.....i think mine does though with its 10-15% relative humidity for large portions of the year :D course the only pure species so far i can get to grow AND pitcher reliably is ventricosa on a window sill.....if we expand that to just growing happily but maybe not pitchering to well you can add bongso and veitchii to the mix but im sure truncata and a few others would do so aswell.....and there are of course the hybrids that tend to be more tolerant of less than ideal conditions.....
 
  • #16
I had N. hamata in precisely the same environment as my rajah and lowii seedlings are presently in (and the rest of my highlanders, most of which are plants with much less of a reputation), and hamata slowly choked while the other two thrived. What I'm getting at is that with most of my plants, when they don't like it, I have weeks or months to correct the problem. N. hamata just flat out died on me - no second chances, no indicating symptoms, just a steady, systemic decline. While providing it with the correct conditions doesn't seem a whole lot harder than any other plant I grow, it does seem a little more specific in its needs, and less forgiving of mistakes. (Which surprised me, because I thought hamata was one of the species more well-adapted to stressors like low humidity - hirsute, thick leaves, etc.)
~Joe

PS - In response to Pyro: In the case of CPs, I'd agree with you. But have you ever grown a Sanseveria? That's my idea of a bombproof plant; if a bomb goes off next to you and you're hospitalized in a coma for six months, there's still a good chance that your Sanseveria will be waiting for you when you come to. I used to let them go for four to five weeks at a time, but I think even my toughest Neps would be ailing after more than a month or two without water.
 
  • #17
I love the positive encouragement for the prospective hamata grower.
The reality is there is a reason you can't buy them for under $100 unless you make a REALLY good trade... the professionals who grow Neps for a living have a hard time propagating them. People who buy them have them die to a very high percentage. If you're succesful, you're unfortunately in the minority currently.

As for a hamata hybrid showing teeth; http://pitcherplants.proboards34.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=7028&page=2

In my Nep. fantasy creations I dream of a Bical x hmata x bical x hamat x bical....
in whatever order. :)
 
  • #18
IIRC the reason hamata is a pain to find at the moment has more to do with legal issues over some TC material than any difficulty with growing it.....cause it was just a few years ago that it was pretty straight forward to get one....i know it was pretty straight forward to find one at a reasonable price the first couple years i was in the hobby, they werent cheap but they werent $100 either...

as far as large numbers of them dieing in the hands of purchasers, thats pretty normal for most small plants.....lots of beginner growers have more money than smarts....see the same thing in the dart frog hobby....idiots buying $200 frogs and they have no clue how to keep a vivarium going....yet the person thats getting by with cheap materials in their one room apartment, saved up for 6 months to get that frog are having great success cause they are seriously interested in it and its not a short term hobby for them just cause they think its neat and have money to burn.....every year we see a flood of new members on this site.....2 years later less than 20% are still around.....

as for that hybrid showing teeth....i agree thats teeth but most here must not cause there are a number of species that are easy to get ahold of with peristromes like that, that no one talks about....some of them can be had fairly cheap aswell........

Joe......sounds like you had a pest or disease problem.....if your keeping lowii and rajah happy it aint your growing conditions.....mine is growing along side raff seedlings that are quite happy...humidity is only in the 50ish% range aswell...........
 
  • #19
I'm not trying to get you quite so confrontational.
I'm new here and am only conversing.
I stated in reality....
And in reality everything i stated I've read about repeatedly to the extent I would
speak of it myself in polite conversation. In reality, of the experiences most Nepenthes
lovers have had has been a hard time with plant. We're not talking about noobie know nothings
with fat cash, but people who read and research. Edubacated seriously learned intelligented upstandering... PLANTOLOGISTS!!! All kidding aside your success with this species does IMHO puts you in a minority, a minority I hope to be in... until it's not a minority.

So if it's not that difficult, why is it so loved but yet not available?
The famed easy to grow much loved giant truncata is everywhere, mixed with everything.

Obviously we disagree, but I seriously don't want to antagonize. I'm hoping we might meet somewhere in the middle.
 
  • #20
Oh, to the best of my knowledge CITES has absolutely nothing to do with anything but wild collected plants or simply ascertaining that plants aren't transporting pests or pathogens. Andreas Wistuba (grower of the three available clone lines) has all this paperwork in place to the T. He and many growers overseas do business shipping plants endangered and not endangered (All nepenthes are endangered) to the states every day. Where are the nurseries brimming with these profitable, easy to grow (?), completely in demand plants?
 
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