Coffee Treatment Curiosity . . .

[Hermopolis]

IMHO, the reason so many get such results from coffee is that the plant is basically starving. 0ppm water is not natural, neither is the critically low amount of nutrients found in common cp substrates used by hobbyist.

That's kind of what I figured. I'm using it for one plant in particular that has not been foliar fed in over eight years and is now having a bit of a problem forming pitchers--my other neps are doing just fine. I probably would have fed it epiphyte's delight as a foliar feed, but I seem to have lost my container of it in my various moves from state to state.

So, I'm not expected a miracle. But I am hope it will give my plant a "pick me up."

 

[Av8tor1]

Av8tor1: what do you root-feed your cephs with?

historically Ive used a non urea based orchid fertilizer... just start slow and let the plant tell you when it needs it and how often. Be aware that there will be a time lag before you see results.

caveat, regardless of method (coffee/fert/etc) this all depends on species and enviromental conditions. So feed gently, then wait and watch...

Av

 

[Exo]

So, would a 20-10-20 urea free orchid fert at 1/4 tsp per gallon work well for neps and cephs?

 

[Av8tor1]

exo,

Forgive me but in a way you're kinda missing the point I'm trying to make. You just need to start off slow and see what works best for you...
What works for me may kill your plants, or it may work great or possibly do nothing at all.
Unless we had identical plants, with identical lighting, with identical watering regiments, with identical soil mixes, with identical co2 levels.... etc etc etc

It only takes one overfeeding to kill, underfeeding just results in slower plant growth
Coffee would indeed be safer, why not start there

 

[Exo]

exo,

Forgive me but in a way you're kinda missing the point I'm trying to make. You just need to start off slow and see what works best for you...
What works for me may kill your plants, or it may work great or possibly do nothing at all.
Unless we had identical plants, with identical lighting, with identical watering regiments, with identical soil mixes, with identical co2 levels.... etc etc etc

It only takes one overfeeding to kill, underfeeding just results in slower plant growth
Coffee would indeed be safer, why not start there

Would coffee work for a ceph?

 

[GrowinOld]

It is one thing to have someone disagree with you "over a cup of coffee"!

But this is absolutely Unbelievable!

Am I the only one who sees the ironic humor in this?

Av, you have my deepest sympathy!

But I think you have over-fed your "plants"!as they seem to be choking on the food!

 

[Zero]

I don't have any scientific way of fertilizing, but my neps have never died from fertilizing at 1/4 to full strength organic, urea based, and non urea based ferts. They always do well after fertilizing. As Av say's it's up to the humidity, soil, light, and water used as well. I don't fertilize much in the winter here because of the short days here in Maine. Right now my neps are starting to pitcher like crazy and I will be using a mix of ferts on them soon. I have yet to try coffee, but will try it with a control group this week and post results.
With Neps you will know when you are over fertilizing them by huge leaves and small pitchers.
I will have to try fertilizing one of my Cephs. I keep killing them
Read the instructions, measure correctly and start slow.
No miracle grow. That stuff will kill anything in the long run.
Sorry, this was a coffee thread, I got caught up in the fert part.
Peace,
Zero

 

[GrowinOld]

Thanks for adding Zero,
but I was referring to something else other than the coffee!

I know I confuse people sometimes when I speak figuratively/allegorically.
I really should stay on topic too, I am sorry.

I am in fact VERY interested in the subject of fertilizing CP's and what different people are doing....
But I just got caught up in seeing the way the conversation went, ...and ...umm... Oh... Never mind! Not important!

I guess I am the only one who saw this.

 

[Zero]

GrowinOld,
I wasn't responding to your post.
I'm still not sure what it means
I just like experimenting with Neps and ferts

 

[Chris_Himself]

Would coffee work for a ceph?

I'm not sure if we're allowed to quote other forum's posts, so please allow me to know if I'm out of line according to rules. I'm just trying to share information I have saved.

I found this thread to be quite beneficial in regards to feeding, and so far, if it works on a nep, it'll work on a ceph the same way?

http://www.flytrapcare.com/phpBB3/post32745.html#p32745

I'm quoting an article on AllExperts:

Hi Charles,

Fertilizing your plant does help your plant produce more pitchers provided that its also getting lots of sunlight and the soil is always moist to the touch. Humidity is helpful with some species, like your lowlands, but not significantly important with the Deroose alata and Miranda. If lighting and soil moisture are not adequate, no amount of humidity or fertilizer will help your Nepenthes.

How abundant will the pitchers be? It depends on the species. Some plants grow incredibly fast, such as Deroose Alata. Others grow a bit slower, such as Lady Pauline.

There are many different opinions about fertilizer, and the current trend is using MaxSea at full strength (1 teaspoon per gallon). Some growers mist their plants with it or add it directly to the pitchers. Others have used it directly in the soil. One well known Nepenthes grower adds it directly to the soil every two weeks. However, he also lives in an area where it rains frequently and his plants grow exclusively outdoors. His soil mix is also equal parts lava rock and coconut husk, so it doesn't retain a lot of nutrients. The fertilizer is constantly flushed out. If you add it to the soil, you'll need to top water your Nepenthes regularly to avoid build up.

With that said, I've yet to use MaxSea on our Nepenthes. I have a bottle of it, but just haven't gotten to using it. But based on my friend's plants, I'm feel confident enough to say that you can apply it directly to the soil on a monthly basis. We're currently testing with adding coffee to the soil, and so far, no harmful effects. When used as directed, a solution of MaxSea will be less dilute than a cup of coffee.

One thing to watch for is leaf production with no pitchers. This is very common if you fertilize too frequently or if the fertilizer is building up in the soil. You see, fertilizer actually encourages leaf production, but if the levels are too high, the plant doesn't need to produce pitchers to capture insects. It's already getting nutrients in the soil! So there's a fine line with the amount you use. If you use it, definitely top water your plants frequently to flush out the excess.

And thank you for watching our videos! We plan to release volume 3 of our DVD later this year. This volume will cover Nepenthes.

Good growing!
Jacob Farin

I use the stuff mentioned above in root drench, foliar, and pitcher feed, so far my neps are doing great with proven growth, but I'll stay on topic. I've been lurking a lot of forums about this subject and from the pics I've seen there, coffee is a rather strong fertilizer. It has little to no effect on LFS, live SM, peat, or soil less mixes. It actually helps moss grow in some cases. I've also read that you shouldn't coffee feed too often, although there haven't been any reports of overfeeding. It's still in it's early stages, and there hasn't been an established frequency yet I feel. Coffee has a LOT of nitrogen in it, it must be in a very usable form to the plant. I haven't read anything about pitcher feeding though, I'd imagine it'd leave big stains!

 

[mobile]

I find all these post on feeding Nepenthes coffee very unscientific. You see, people say that they see an improvement in the growth, but I've yet to see a conclusiive post or paper where identical plants are grown in identical conditions, with one set being fed coffee, one being given non-urea fertilizer and one getting nothing - as a control. Now, I expect that the ones getting coffee will grow faster , as they will utilise the nitrogen but I strongly suspect that the ones given fertilizer would also grow faster than the control. So, what would be the benefit of giving them coffee rather than fertilizer? Fertilizers are formulated to provide a balanced feed, coffee is not. This is not to say the fertilizer is better for Nepenthes than coffee, or vice versa and eventually both might harm the plant but until someone performs a proper experiment, I remain unconvinced.

As an aside, I too feed my Cephalotus with urea free fertilizer, as per Av, but I would not consider feeding them coffee until I see a lot more evidence to its long term benefits over fertilizers.

 

[BuddhistAdam]

coffe mixed with orchid ferts!! THE MADNESS!!!! O.O

 

[BigBella]

I find all these post on feeding Nepenthes coffee very unscientific. You see, people say that they see an improvement in the growth, but I've yet to see a conclusiive post or paper where identical plants are grown in identical conditions, with one set being fed coffee, one being given non-urea fertilizer and one getting nothing - as a control. Now, I expect that the ones getting coffee will grow faster , as they will utilise the nitrogen but I strongly suspect that the ones given fertilizer would also grow faster than the control. So, what would be the benefit of giving them coffee rather than fertilizer? Fertilizers are formulated to provide a balanced feed, coffee is not. This is not to say the fertilizer is better for Nepenthes than coffee, or vice versa and eventually both might harm the plant but until someone performs a proper experiment, I remain unconvinced.

As an aside, I too feed my Cephalotus with urea free fertilizer, as per Av, but I would not consider feeding them coffee until I see a lot more evidence to its long term benefits over fertilizers.

I don't think that anyone is currently claiming that there is conclusive scientific proof that coffee benefits Nepenthes -- and that the positive results are entirely anecdotal; that being said, most of us who have attempted using the "coffee treatment," arrived late in the game and didn't have the luxury of a statistically-significant number of plants to experiment upon -- or had already tainted a potential control group by having applied some form of artificial fertilizer in the past.

I have a large number of highland Nepenthes seeds arriving from Southeast Asia within the next few weeks and plan to perform just such an experiment. There will be a strict control group, which will remain untouched; another which will receive a specific amount of coffee (yet to be established); another group will receive a standard one-quarter strength 30:10:10 orchid fertilizer; and that last group of plants, a not-so-tasty solution of both. Each group will, otherwise, be grown under identical conditions . . .

 

[GrowinOld]

This is so typical of Coffee anyway!
One week the scientists say it is good for you, the next week they say it is bad! One minute it is said it is bad for your heart, the next they say it is good to prevent colon cancer!
And these are scientists!

And personally, I will try anything as long as it seems logical and I have something to risk trying it on! As was said, very few of us have 2 dozen EXTRA Cephs growing at the same stage and conditions, to begin experimenting on!
Jeez people, we have to accept that sometimes it is a bunch of amateur growers trying new things, and reporting their results, and then deciding if YOU want to try what they did!

I do however agree and see that some people are jumping to the wrong conclusions, but then some of the people here on the forums have little or no real growing experience, and some are just in their teens! So what do you expect? (No offense to you who are, but I certainly don't expect you to be as intuitive and knowledgeable about comparative studies and methods if you don't have the experience. I think the problem I do have comes in not knowing who is who!) I think that is what I saw in an earlier post.

Big Bella, I for one would LOVE to see your experiment and the results! I think it would make a great long lasting experiment, from seedling thru adulthood. (Since I am a firm believer in ecological "balance", it would be interesting to see if a fertilizer group would benefit from a slight increase in water/light/ CO2 /soil acidity, etc. since their metabolic rate will be altered by the increase in fertilizer.) Oh yea, are you thinking root application or foliar or pitcher feeding?

Best of luck!
Paul

 

[BigBella]

This is so typical of Coffee anyway!
One week the scientists say it is good for you, the next week they say it is bad! One minute it is said it is bad for your heart, the next they say it is good to prevent colon cancer!
And these are scientists!


Big Bella, I for one would LOVE to see your experiment and the results! I think it would make a great long lasting experiment, from seedling thru adulthood. (Since I am a firm believer in ecological "balance", it would be interesting to see if a fertilizer group would benefit from a slight increase in water/light/ CO2 /soil acidity, etc. since their metabolic rate will be altered by the increase in fertilizer.) Oh yea, are you thinking root application or foliar or pitcher feeding?

Best of luck!
Paul

Love the coffee comment. It is quite true and reminds me a bit of Woody Allen's Sleeper, where his character comes to find out, a century or so in the future, that cigarettes and fast food are now considered beneficial to the health.

The seeds, by the way, are from the intermediate-highland species, Nepenthes smilesii from Northern Thailand; and while it is a bit early in the planning stages, I had considered a root and/or foliar application for the experimental group, at least while seedlings. Of course, the fact that the plants are carnivorous poses a bit of a problem, since they can obtain some of their own nitrogen sources; and that also extends to the control group. But all things being equal, I simply will leave those plants to their own devices. Purposely preventing them from catching anything on their own, would adversely affect the results -- and serve to "hobble" the control group.

Coffee? I'm thinking of Peet's, out of San Francisco. It's close by and I already drink far too much of it. Better that the plants enjoy some . . .