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Succumbing to French Roast Pressure . . .

  • #21
I for one find your using orchid fertilizer as part of you common standard of great value. Pouring coffee over unfertilized plants only tells us that coffee carries fertilizer values, something plant growers have known for years.
Whether it has some other qualities that affects Neps (or other CP's) growth "other than" it's fertilizer value is still yet unknown (Like the acids in the coffee, or some other component.)
So while some people feel the experiment is less than ideal under the circumstances, I feel it is actually more appropriate. (Comparing a plant receiving coffee treatments to one totally starving, would only illustrate what to me would be expected already. But at this point your experiment addresses the next obvious question, which hasn't been looked into yet.)

Concerning the sphagnum, are you applying coffee to the sphagnum itself or pouring the coffee thru it... and more importantly, are you applying it the same way as you do when applying the fertilizer? (I am curious if the coffee/fertilizer is having affects when applied to the "growing parts"/"leaf zone" of the sphagnum as compared to the "lower portions"/"root zone".) This could have bearing to when people experience "burn", algae, etc. when they do it.

While some people have had fertilizer burn to sphagnum, I have lately had rather good growth from it, unexpectedly.
Well, keep up the experiments. I am interested to see the results long term.
Oh yea... Are you photographing the 18 subjects for posting later? Also, I looked but couldn't find... aside from the initial coffee treatment, do you plan on doing the coffee treatment on a regular basis? If so, how far apart? (If you already mentioned, I am sorry I didn't see it... mind ain't working well lately.)

Well, good luck. It is nice to see you can afford to experiment on such valued plants. Makes seeing the results that much more interesting!

Thanks . . .

The way things were worked out was more out of necessity than carefully planned, since I only had a few plants available to experiment upon; and I had already been using 1/4 strength 30:10:10 orchid fertilizers on all of the Nepenthes for several years.

I applied the coffee in the same manner as the fertilizer, by pouring it through the media -- over the plant leaves themselves -- until it visibly drained, as one would conventionally water any plant. Initially, I was somewhat concerned about algal growth, though I had never experienced a problem or damage to the sphagnum moss with the dilute fertilizer in the past; but I was worried about the possible effects of the added coffee.

There turned out to be no need for concern, and I immediately noticed a marked increased growth of the sphagnum within ten days of the coffee application -- and, visibly, more rapid growth of the plants themselves (notable because most of the highlanders, otherwise, develop very slowly).

I have only applied the coffee once and the most current recommendation is treatment every six months; provided that no harm comes to the plants, I will continue using it. The 30:10:10 has been applied biweekly throughout this time.

I will post photos of the other -- eighteen -- subjects down the line; whether I can "afford" to experiment on them remains to be seen. I honestly don't wish to kill my plants or attempt to replace them . . .

I am also awaiting a shipment of more -- expendable -- Nepenthes seeds to more formally experiment upon . . .
 
  • #22
David,

Do you brew your coffee in the typical American strength?.... LOL, and then do you dilute before application?

If you read the historical advise for coffee use, most resources (non-cp) recommend a 25% strength dilution.

Thanks mate, enquiring minds want to know ;)


Butch
 
  • #23
David,

Do you brew your coffee in the typical American strength?.... LOL, and then do you dilute before application?

If you read the historical advise for coffee use, most resources (non-cp) recommend a 25% strength dilution.

Thanks mate, enquiring minds want to know ;)


Butch

I definitely prefer coffee on the strong side and thought it best to dilute it a bit (by about 25%), and prepared a liter with breakfast. Strangely enough though, the pots still smelled of coffee for days afterwords -- especially those in the sun . . .
 
  • #24
David,

I prefer mine a little on the strong side as well.... tends to be a little weak on this side of the pond
Do you mean 25% coffee or 25% water?
The non-cp refs state 25% coffee, but they may be using it much more frequently... ???

Butch
 
  • #25
David,

I prefer mine a little on the strong side as well.... tends to be a little weak on this side of the pond
Do you mean 25% coffee or 25% water?
The non-cp refs state 25% coffee, but they may be using it much more frequently... ???

Butch

Sorry, I meant a coffee concentration of about 75% (25% water). Just how frequently to do it is still up in the air, and biannual application seems to be the only information currently available. In terms of concentration, the coffee was still opaque in the liter bottle . . .
 
  • #26
Big,

Sounds like you are seeing increased plant growth already then?
...I immediately noticed a marked increased growth of the sphagnum within ten days of the coffee application -- and, visibly, more rapid growth of the plants themselves (notable because most of the highlanders, otherwise, develop very slowly)...

If the growth is in fact increased, there must be more to the coffee than the addition of normal fertilizing nutrients that are already found in the orchid fertilizer you are using!
(Does it contain trace elements?)
The coffee could be providing other trace nutrients that are not in the orchid fertilizer, or there is always the possibility that some compound in the coffee, is acting as a growth hormone of some sort. (for example: a hormone like gibberellic acid, as opposed to a nutrient.) Well, enough speculation... Back to the actual experimenting! :drunk:

(I can see the next experiment.... how many "cups a day" will a Hamata "drink" compared to a Bical?!)
Some people I used to work with were so zipped on coffee, until noon when they reach for something a little more cold brewed or distilled! :-O
Besides, I have to know how much to buy now, before the results are in and everyone drives up the price of coffee! :-D

Well, kidding aside, I find this an interesting experiment... especially as I mentioned, beyond just whether coffee has common fertilizer values/components. Ever since I was a little kid I remember my grandfather using coffee grounds (and dumped cold coffee) on his roses, as well as my uncle using them on the compost heap.

Good luck All! :water:
 
  • #27
another "old school" method was oak leaf tea, fill a 5 gallon bucket 1/3rd with dead oak leaves... top off with water and set in the sun for a few days... then pour off the liquid and use.

and of course the old stand by of "compost tea" but one of its claims to fame was the beneficial bacteria in addition to the nutrient value

(digging in my closet for my tie-dyed shirt, power-hitter and mother earth news LOLOLOL)

Thanks for the leg work David, much appreciated mate
Butch
 
  • #28
Big,

Sounds like you are seeing increased plant growth already then?


If the growth is in fact increased, there must be more to the coffee than the addition of normal fertilizing nutrients that are already found in the orchid fertilizer you are using!
(Does it contain trace elements?)
The coffee could be providing other trace nutrients that are not in the orchid fertilizer, or there is always the possibility that some compound in the coffee, is acting as a growth hormone of some sort. (for example: a hormone like gibberellic acid, as opposed to a nutrient.) Well, enough speculation... Back to the actual experimenting! :drunk:

Good luck All! :water:

I did notice a more rapid development of leaves in highlanders such as N. lowii, N. rajah, and N. villosa, among others -- all of which otherwise grow at a snail's pace.

The 30:10:10 orchid fertilizer also contains the following: 0.05% Cu, Mn, and Zn; 0.10% Fe, and 0.0005% Mo . . .

I would definitely consider myself a skeptic, but I am truly impressed with the early progress that I have seen; and I do have to hand it to Dave Evans, dvg, and several others who had, shall we say, the "testicular fortitude" to dump a bunch of stale coffee into their expensive, often difficult to obtain Nepenthes. Had I not read their anecdotal accounts and seen some of their amazing results, I would never have attempted it . . .


Thanks for the leg work David, much appreciated mate
Butch

You're definitely welcome. I'm willing to try anything that works and won't put my plants on the compost heap, just yet . . .
 
  • #29
Ahh! :offtopic::eek:
:jester: tie-dyed shirt, power-hitter and mother earth news! :-D
The good old days! :woot::boogie::banana2:

(Hey...power-hitter? :p ) Not a lot of people here gonna remember those! :scratch:

I did say "The good old days", right?! :bigthumpup:
I think I still have a copy or two of Mother earth in the basement!
Along with my Whole Earth Catalog! (Honest!)
And here people think this coffee thing is a "new" idea! :rolleyes: Mother Earth had us doing it all! (And some of it a bit more off the wall!)
Heck, I guess we were "Green" before people knew what Green was.... (a way to un-hook off of the "grid", civilization drop-out, self sufficient and one with nature!) :water:
A mindset brought on by effective "power-hitting" no less! ;)

Now, back to the coffee!
 
  • #30
Here is a little update on the Nepenthes villosa with a new leaf almost fully developed -- fast growth for this species. At the very least, someone has just got to trim the verge -- for the first time since the plant has been potted . . .

Nepenthes villosa -- 22 April
NVILLOSA-1-1.jpg


NVILLOSA-2-1.jpg

7 May

NV1.jpg


NV2.jpg
 
  • #31
Beautiful plant BigB. Amazing and inspiring as always. Btw...I really like the quote in your sig. Indeed very very wise words. :)
 
  • #32
Beautiful plant BigB. Amazing and inspiring as always. Btw...I really like the quote in your sig. Indeed very very wise words. :)

Thanks . . .

I have my fingers crossed that the next pitchers will look more mature than last season; and I have always liked that Galileo quote . . .
 
  • #33
It's really nice to see the progress your villosa is making BigBella.

And it appears that it is getting some benefit from the coffee treatments you are giving it...good stuff!

I was looking at mine and noticed that it has a basal shoot poking up out of the sphagnum...three leaves and just over two and half inches in diameter, leaf tip to leaf tip.

Now I just have to figure out how to bring this along and hopefully root it, too.

dvg
 
  • #34
It's really nice to see the progress your villosa is making BigBella.

And it appears that it is getting some benefit from the coffee treatments you are giving it...good stuff!

I was looking at mine and noticed that it has a basal shoot poking up out of the sphagnum...three leaves and just over two and half inches in diameter, leaf tip to leaf tip.

Now I just have to figure out how to bring this along and hopefully root it, too.

dvg

Thanks, I do see marked improvement -- or speed of growth, anyway . . .

I've removed basals from N. villosa on two occasions with an X-acto knife and successfully rooted them in live sphagnum with Clonex -- though it took months for roots to form . . .

 
  • #35
Thanks, I do see marked improvement -- or speed of growth, anyway . . .

I've removed basals from N. villosa on two occasions with an X-acto knife and successfully rooted them in live sphagnum with Clonex -- though it took months for roots to form . . .

That sounds encouraging. How many leaves did your villosa basals have before you separated them from the mother plant?
 
  • #36
That sounds encouraging. How many leaves did your villosa basals have before you separated them from the mother plant?

Each of the basals had two fairly compact leaves, nothing like the larger basals on most other Nepenthes; and I wasn't even aware of their existence until I was rooting around the moss, looking for pests . . .
 
  • #37
Gorgeous plants, BigBella, and a very intriguing experiment. (I use Maxsea once a month, and along with enhanced growth of the Nepenthes, the sphagnum really thrives and requires "pruning".
 
  • #38
Each of the basals had two fairly compact leaves, nothing like the larger basals on most other Nepenthes; and I wasn't even aware of their existence until I was rooting around the moss, looking for pests . . .

Thanks for that info. Now I'm looking forward to seeing that sucker root.:-))
 
  • #39
I just started coffee treatment in addition to my MaxSea regime and it's really produced some impressive yields. It's 2:30am right now and I couldn't take my plants out to photograph in detail, but I did snap a couple of my favorite plants in my collection. These are 3 weeks into treatment. The "Coffee Treatment Curiousity" and this thread led me to try it. I experimented with pitcher feeding coffee on my windowsill N. Deroose Alata downstairs and it accelerated pitcher death in my scenario. The plant that has shown the most increased vigor though is my Veitchii x Platychila. Check out the size of that pitcher compared to the earlier one! Sadly the heat we've been getting lately dried out the older ones the plant shipped out with :-(

I also included a picture of my N. x Miranda because in the last month it almost has doubled it's leafspan with the last 3 leaves it's put out. That new leaf is like a foot long in itself. I haven't experienced any pitcher abortion as of now so hopefully I'm not overdoing anything.

I am a huge supporter of coffee feeding now after my results.
 
  • #40
I haven't tried the coffee method, but one thing to keep in mind. I would never, ever pour coffee onto my plants without first looking over my coffee pot and cleaning it extremely thoroughly. I have taken mine apart already and the tubes that the water goes through were almost caked shut with mineral deposits. They sell brushes and solution to clean this. If you don't, Your asking for trouble. Reverse Osmosis water or not, you'll be adding minerals to your coffee and killing your plants. Like watering them with regular tap water, or worse.
 
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