New Nepenthes fan with questions

[dboeren]

Hello! I'm brand new to carnivorous plants and rapidly becoming obsessed with Nepenthes. I've already ordered a copy of Savage Garden, expected to arrive sometime next week, and have been reading online all week.

Anyway, I'm working on researching some intial Nepenthes plants to start my collection (haven't ordered anything yet) and could use some good advice. Here's my situation...

I live in Atlanta, GA (Zone 8). I'm willing to keep the plants in several locations, but I expect that initially they'd have to be indoors since it's winter and can get quite cold outdoors. My locations are:

1. On a covered and screen part of the deck behind the house, facing NNW.
2. Same deck, but on the open portion that is not covered or screened. More room and light than #1.
3. Under the deck, on a concrete patio area. This offers the largest amount of space in a single area.
4. Inside the house, where it may be too dry and the temp is generally in the high 60's to mid 70's depending on time of year. I could potentially set up a terrarium if needed.
5. In the basement, where it is less climate-controlled. We have sort of a garage storage room that doesn't get heated/cooled.

Then, presumably I'd take the plants indoors during the cold part of the winter no matter which location they usually lived in. Also, I work from home so it should be fairly easy to mist the plants during the day. So, which location sounds like it would work best? Highland or Lowland? Anything else you need to know?


I am willing to consider a small inexpensive greenhouse along the lines of something like this or maybe slightly larger. If it was larger though it would have to go under the deck:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0..._m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=0C55N3KTEJQ8AAAJ9DVJ


Also, I've been considering two different options of how to start out. Would I be better off to buy several less expensive but small plants (3-4"), or would it be more worthwhile to put the money into a single larger plant (6-8"+) that might be hardier than a young plant would be? Should I wait until the weather warms up before ordering or is it OK to start now?

I'm also open to advice on species. I've read enough to know the most common beginner species include N. ventricosa, N. sanguinea, N. ramispina, N. 'Judith Finn', etc... but I would welcome additional recommendations that would work well in my setting and particularly with regard to hybrids and 2nd level plants just beyond the super-basic ones that would probably grow well - I have it in mind to pick up maybe a couple of beginner plants and then one semi-intermediate plant and see if I can tackle that.

A couple of potential 2nd level plants I might be interested in include:
N. specabilis "Giant", N. macfarlanei, N. spectabilis x ventricosa, N. bongso or N. inermis x bongso, and almost anything with teeth on the peristome. Also open to suggestions as I'm sure there's tons of great stuff I haven't even seen yet.

Anyway, that ought to be enough for now Thanks!

 

[rattler]

N. bongso is pretty hardy, was the first pure species i got.......likes to pout when conditions change but it just goes into suspended animation for about 4 to 6 weeks than starts growing again without a hitch...never really was a problem just stopped all growing for awhile before starting back up....

 

[DETHCHEEZ]

Hi

I think N. ventricosa, N. ventrata, N. alata & N. sanguinea would all be good choices for 1st plants
All of them are pretty hardy & more forgiving than most & are on the inexpensive side just in case they don't make it while you're experimenting with things

Lowlanders would be harder to grow {IMO} unless you want to set up a high humidity heated tank
Highlanders can take the cold better than LL, I'll rephrase that as Most HL Can / At least in my expeariance

Where to grow them from your choices is kind of hard to say / It would all depend on the conditions of each & the plants themselves

Neps like a lot of indirect light
Humidity depends on the plant, some {like LL] require really high humidify while others can tolerate lower humidity

HL like day temps in the high 70s low 80s with a night time temp drop
Mine tolerate temps in to the high 80s to mid even high 90s & can take lows as low as the low to mid 40s
{I grow outdoors}

Intermediates about the same as HL 70s to 80s / Lows in to the 50s

LL like it in the 80s & 90s & lows in to maybe the 60s at the coldest / Can't really comment much on LL since I myself don't grow any

But that's not 100% for all plants / Just a general guide that should help give you an idea of what might do good for you giving your conditions
It veries from specie to specie & plant to plant

I think this site provides some good info. that may help you decide
http://www.nepenthesaroundthehouse.com/

As for a green house, if you're planning on getting in to the hobby I would consider getting a bigger one if possible
Because something like that will fill up FAST, but then again it would be a nice starter one that you can always use for smaller plants and/or cuttings once your collection grows
Check out ebay. you can get a 12 footer for around $85 shipped

Good Luck
DC

 

[Joel143]

Welcome...I myself am also new so am not knowledgeable to give great advice. One thing I can say is the 4 tier greenhouse your looking at getting works great. Right now I am using 3 of them for my nepenthes indoors until January when I will be purchasing an outdoor greenhouse. I grow mostly lowlanders and some intermediates due to my location. I'm in southern louisiana. There s alot of information and advice from knowledgeable members here who can help.

 

[dboeren]

If they prefer indirect light then I would think the screened part of the deck or the patio beneath the deck would potentially be good options after the weather warms up. They'll have a bigger nighttime temperature drop out there than they will indoors, and the uncovered portion of the deck will get direct sun for at least 6 hours or so.

I'll have to measure the humidity and see where we're at there. I would prefer to have the plants be able to grow well without having to set up a greenhouse, humidifier, etc... if that's possible. The fewer environmental modifications you depend on, the less there is to go wrong.

I've been thinking Highlands were probably the way to go, most of what I've read seems to say that they're easier than Lowlands and most of the recommended beginner species are Highland plants.

Thanks for the eBay tip, I'll check there for greenhouses too.

What do you think about whether it's better (for the same money) to get several small (3") plants or a single (6-8") plant? I guess I'm still not sure what my primary problems are going to be. Maybe it will be a struggle to keep the plants alive, or maybe they'll be bursting out and running me out of room. At this point, who knows?

 

[Raven01000]

Just some input on the humidity issue: I keep all of my Nepenthes except N. hamata out in regular room humidity (you can take a look at my grow list to get an idea) and pretty much all of them are pitchering. You can acclimate almost any Nepenthes to low humidity if it is used to high humidity by placing a plastic baggy tightly over the pot and cutting a few small holes in the bag every few days until the humidity in the bag is equal to the humidity in the room. This can take a couple weeks or more, but it's important to make a gradual change so that the plant doesn't go into shock.

Also, I know a lot of growers suggest drops into the 50s for highlanders, but I know the temps in my house don't fall below 60 degrees at night and everything is growing quite well regardless.

A few plants that grow very well and vigorously for me that you might like to try: N. maxima, any hybrid with ventricosa in it, N. spectabilis, N. "exotic lady" or the reverse hybrid "lady pauline", N. copelandii, N. spectabilis x aristolochioides, and N. clipeata x (clipeata x eymae).

If you're worried about killing your plants, I'd recommend starting with some easier ones that appeal to you and then if you succeed with them get some harder ones. And if the hard ones turn out to be easy, then challenge yourself with some even harder ones.

As for small versus large: I like small plants in that eventually they will be big plants and they save space and money in the meantime. On the other hand, it's nice to buy a few big plants so that you can enjoy their awesome pitchers while you wait on the little ones to grow up.

 

[dboeren]

Thanks, that sounds like really useful advice. Reminds me of what I used to do when I was raising African Cichlids, gradually mixing in tank water into their bag to acclimate the new fish. So, as long as you do it gradually the leaves will have time to build up a better wax layer to prevent drying out too fast (as long as the humidity doesn't get TOO low or you have a species that really does need higher levels).

I think I'm probably going to buy a couple of small plants (3-4") and maybe one bigger one (6-8") as something to look forward for my little guys. We'll see what's available when I'm ready to place the order.

I can get a deeper temperature drop if I put the plants in the basement (which we don't heat at night). I'll put my digital thermometer down there tonight - it has a high/low memory so I can see how low it drops overnight.

Thing is, I don't KNOW if I should be worried about killing my plants. Maybe they're tougher than some folks let on. I saw some N. alta today at a Pike Nursery and they weren't being treated well but the guy said they had been at the store for a couple of months. Yeah, some of the pitchers were turning brown and wrinkled but they were still alive and growing new little pitchers. I'm pretty sure they were just getting hose water like all the other plants, not distilled. The air wasn't humid, they weren't in a greenhouse or tent or anything, and it was fairly cool in the store, probably quite cold at night. If that didn't kill them, I'm sure I can do better than THAT.

Anyway, thanks for the advice and species list. I'm hoping to figure out my order by next week, give myself a few days of setup time after "Savage Garden" arrives to make sure I've got all the supplies I need. Proper soil mix, distilled water (might find a better source later), prey items (probably shared with my Bearded Dragons), etc... I need to look into lightning as well, might have to pick up a shop flourescent light or something.

I don't know how many of these things are strictly necessary and how many are somewhat optional, but I've collected various sorts of animals over the years from African Cichlids to constrictor snakes to tarantulas and in all cases I want my buddies to thrive, not just barely survive.

 

[Chris_Himself]

I think when buying Nepenthes, the starting size is semi-important. If you're impatient like I am, you literally watch your plants grow and it'll haunt you that you didn't go larger.

Also good with larger plants is that they're more hardy, you pot them in larger pots so they don't have to deal with fluctuating moisture levels in their media, AND you're just that much closer to them vining out and making nice cuttings material for trade on TF

That being said, I was the same way with Nepenthes before I became really lazy with my cultivation, so it's mostly temperates for me these days. My Sarracenia say hi from underground by the way...

This is a truely fascinating hobby that isn't the most expensive one and you'll make a lot of friends here. Welcome to TF.

 

[Raven01000]

I understand completely...My house is at capacity as far as animals go (roaches, python, gecko, axolotl, newt, cats) and each time in the past when I would get a new species I'd do a ton of research and try and create the perfect environment I could afford to make them happy and healthy.

I wasn't as strict when I started with my plants, and as a result, I was worried that my lack of terrariums and such would cause my plants to just get by without really thriving or pitchering, but the way they're growing and getting bigger and better all the time makes me think they must be happy with their setup. I hope you have similar luck no matter what setup you chose

P.S. I love your avatar; Monty Python rocks.

 

[dboeren]

Thanks. I've been using the same avatar for years on all the forums I've visited.

I think I've found a good indoor spot to start out with a couple of plants, it's a corner with windows on both sides that should provide enough light that I don't need a supplement.


Edit: Despite the temptation to start out with more plants, I think Chris Himself has an excellent point. A somewhat bigger plant would be more hardy and exhibiting better pitchers in the near term which would be nice as well. I get some nicer looking specimens that will help fuel my interest and are more interesting to show to visitors. So, I think I prefer that route.

Consequently, I am now planning to get 2 or possibly 3 somewhat bigger plants to start out with. I'll post a list of some candidate species in a couple of days and you guys can help me select from them.

 

[Dexenthes]

If I were you I'd start out with N. villosa and N. bicalcarata. They're some of the simplest most rewarding plants.

jks jksjksjs, sounds like everyone's given you pretty much all the advice you need for now.

So I'm just shamelessly raising my post count.

 

[DETHCHEEZ]

Regarding the plants at the nursery / Some plants are just hardier than others & will survive in less than optimal conditions
But in the long run they wont make it if they receive improper care for long enough

If they're doing good for them at the nursery without proper care you might consider getting one since the clement is the same as yours
&
Just an FYI since you've never ordered Neps though the mail before
Chances are that any pitchers that come on the plants will die off pretty quick
Don't freak out if that happens
Plants can go through shipping and/or environment change shock & might not look their best till they acclimate to their new home

Best Of Luck
DC

 

[dboeren]

Thanks for letting me know about the environment shock thing, I'll try not to feel too bad if the plants take a turn for the worse before they get better.


Here are a couple of cellphone pics I took at the nursery, what do you guys think? For reference, these are 6" hanging pots. This plant seemed to be the best specimen I could find.

Pic #1: You can see some of the pitchers are withered and brown over the upper half. Every pitcher had a dead lid. But other pitchers seem to still be in reasonable shape.

Pic #2: The leaves and main stem on the other hand seem to be healthy.

Pic #3: Also, there seem to be new pitchers forming. Some of them are withered like the one on the right.

If I were going to try to rehabilitate this plant, what would I do? Cut off the dead pitchers and lids? Anything else? If you cut off a pitcher, will the same leaf regrow a new one or do you need a new leaf to do that?

I'm not even sure I trust them to get the species right, the tag claimed that it's N. alata. Does that seem right?

Edit: One more thing. The person who took care of that section (Houseplants) was not present to answer questions. But, the guy who helped me find them was able to tell me that he'd been working at that location for 2 1/2 months and the plants had been there the whole time he was.

 

[Raven01000]

Unless a pitcher is completely brown don't cut it off. Half-dead pitchers may be ugly, but they are still capable of digesting whatever is in the bottom of them. In fact, many of my plants have older pitchers that become half-dead like that and stay that way for a long time. I have heard that this may actually be a mechanism by which the plant can prevent rot by deterring more insects from entering while the ones that are already in there are digested. Also, if you cut one off you'll have to wait for a new leaf to get a new pitcher.

The leaves at the top are pretty small, but the plant seems to have a ton of different growth points. It looks to me like those little new pitchers are actually coming off of a basal. It looks really healthy. As long as you give it the correct conditions when you buy it I don't think you'll have any trouble at all.

It does look like N. alata to me. Also, if you ever want help identifying a species in the future, check out the cpphotofinder website. They have pictures of just about every kind of Nep there is, and usually it saves me some time to just look there.

 

[dboeren]

I see, so what I took as a sign of dying pitchers may not really be that at all. It could just be after-effects of shipping stress or old pitchers. I still don't think it's the latter since it's happening on smaller pitchers and even on some baby pitchers, but at least it's not a sign that the plant as a whole is on the way out.

 

[Chris_Himself]

To me, pitchers aren't the absolute sign of plant health. To me, it's actually roots. If your plant has adequate lighting (easiest CP in the world to achieve with) and a killer root system, it'll survive almost anything provided it's not one of the notably harder species to obtain success with.

For example, I have this N. x Miranda I've been trying to give away, abandon, even borderline neglect from time to time, and for some reason it just will not die. It gets what it needs from rain and sprinkler fallout, the sun obviously does it's job (btw this is nearly full sun, don't mimic this), and then I one day just decide to repot it out of mercy. It apparently became rootbound which is odd considering neps have gangly root systems, and it's still managing to pitcher IN WINTER, after I moved it inside under 75 watts of CFL lighting with 12 hours of light a day.

I attribute the success to the species, California, and a good starting stock from my favorite nursery.

PS. The odd thing is I can't seem to do conventional gardening very well...

 

[nepguy]

Welcome! I actually have one of those little greenhouses. I used it for a couple of years to grow nepenthes outside in my back yard. I live on a hill where I get a lot of wind, and it was a way to protect them from that. I had it tied to a pole.

I'd like to confirm what other folks have said. I think it's always a good idea to start with easier species or hybrids and get some confidence in growing. I would suggest getting a N. x miranda, which I believe to be a form of N. x mixta. They tolerate neglect and mistakes very well, are typically not very expensive, and will give you huge colorful pitchers in a variety of less-than-perfect conditions. I had one that dried out to the point of wilting most of the pitchers, and it came back just fine. Surprisingly, N. rafflesiana is very adaptable, too. The ones I have growing without enclosures in the basement continue to grow and pitcher under the lights even in winter when temperatures remain pretty much in the 60's. Another hybrid you might try is N. x dyeriana. These are incredibly easy to grow and very adaptable to a variety of conditions. The pitchers get huge. Very rewarding.

Many nepenthes grow great in bright indirect light (keyword: bright), but they can grow in bit of sun, too. I have some that get full sun for half a day in a southern window, and they seem to love it. Remember that natural light will produce seasonal fluctuations in growth.

Keep in mind that although nepenthes grow slowly, most of these plants will get BIG. I have to cut back my plants all the time because of limited space, but fortunately they are very easy to reproduce from cuttings.

Make sure the medium is airy and drains well, and use big pots so they have plenty of room at the roots. I agree with Chris Himself. Healthy roots = healthy plants.

Keep conditions stable and consistent for your plants, even if the conditions you can provide for them are not perfect. They will adapt, but they need consistency to do so. Settle on placement and don't be moving them around a lot, except to bring them in for the winter if you have them outside in the summer.

Dead pitchers--I cut the crispy upper portions off and leave the bottoms until they eventually turn brown, too. Keeps things looking a little neater.

BTW that "alata" in your photo is a N. x ventrata. You can tell by the elongated nature of the bulge at the bottom of the pitcher. A true N. alata typically has a more abrupt transition.

 

[dboeren]

The odd thing is I can't seem to do conventional gardening very well...

For myself, I find that my level of effort is directly related to how interested I am in a thing.

For instance, I am not that skilled at fixing things around the house, not what you would call a "handyman" in any sense. But, I can perform basic (non-circuit board) repairs on our pinball machines - replacing solenoids, targets, lights, soldering in a new rectifier if one burns out, etc... This I can do. It's not any simpler than conventional household maintenance, but I am much more interested in it. Nor would I consider putting this much effort into establishing ideal conditions for a lowly tomato plant or house fern.


Back on subject, it might be useful to have a guinea pig to learn on before I order some fancier variety and mess it up I'll give the nursery a call today to find out when their Houseplants person that's been caring for them will be in. I'd like to ask them a few questions on what they've been doing thus far, and then I'll probably pick one up.

---------- Post added at 10:19 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:06 AM ----------

Keep in mind that although nepenthes grow slowly, most of these plants will get BIG. I have to cut back my plants all the time because of limited space, but fortunately they are very easy to reproduce from cuttings.

I think the plan now is to pick up this one ventrata as a learner plant, then pick out about two more to start with from mail order. Should be a while before I have to cut back any of them, but I'm fine with doing so. I think I know at least one guy I could hand out cuttings to who'd be interested in a free pitcher. If I ever get to the point where I have a really large collection I can probably move to some sort of small outdoor greenhouse.

Make sure the medium is airy and drains well, and use big pots so they have plenty of room at the roots. I agree with Chris Himself. Healthy roots = healthy plants.

Do you think the 6" pots in the photos are big enough for a plant this size, or should I repot it in something larger?

BTW that "alata" in your photo is a N. x ventrata. You can tell by the elongated nature of the bulge at the bottom of the pitcher. A true N. alata typically has a more abrupt transition.

Wikipedia seems to bear this out as well, plus their picture strongly resembles the ones I took:

"Nepenthes × ventrata is a natural hybrid involving N. alata and N. ventricosa. Like its two parent species, it is endemic to the Philippines. N. × ventrata is one of the most common tissue cultured Nepenthes plants, although it is often mislabelled as Nepenthes alata. It is relatively easy to grow indoors and is usually the first tropical pitcher plant seen by consumers due to its availability in many garden shops and home centres."

 

[dboeren]

I ended up picking up one of the ventrata over lunch, actually a different specimen that pictured earlier that I decided was even better (and which has one fairly large pitcher on it). I also picked up some orchid bark, long fiber sphagnum, a bigger pot, and some distilled water. I'm going to wait a while to repot it so as not to subject it to everything all at once.

Here's a shot of the best pitcher:

 

[nepguy]

You should probably let your plant settle into your conditions for a while before you transplant, but I would definitely put it into a bigger pot eventually. It will be happier if its roots can spread out a bit. If the medium is in good shape (still airy and not broken down, mushy, or foul-smelling) and the roots run through it so that it holds together, you can transplant with hardly any shock to the plant by making a hole in the medium in the new pot a bit bigger than the original pot and just pop in the root ball and tamp and fill the rest in. However, if the medium is stale or broken down you should replace it all. N. x ventratas are pretty tough and vigorous, and I wouldn't worry too much about doing something wrong. Just take your time and do things carefully.

I personally stopped using orchid bark in my mix. It breaks down too quickly for me, although a lot of people use it and it seems to work fine for them. In my opinion, a good portion of chunky perlite works very well to make a medium airy and fast-draining. You can put a lot of things in a mix for nepenthes–everyone has their own magic blend.

Cheers!