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Bye bye my hamata friend...

I might have posted some pictures of one of my hamata's early last spring looking all wicked and mean. It responded well to moving into a moss bottomed aquarium with a lid in an unheated room at night but by late May the nights weren't doing the job well enough. I ordered a Magic Chef wine cooler and by the time it arrived just 5 days later the plant had stopped growing and the base of the top leaves began turning black. I removed it from the container and media and the roots were gone so I dipped it into hormone powder and stuck it into new NZS in a mini greenhouse and right into the cooler each night but it never recovered. The same thing happened to my mac so it was a double whammy. I have another with a 1 inch leaf span that never really took off and even though it received the correct conditions all summer just sat there looking like plastic until about October. Suddenly the leaves took on a nice sheen and new growth started piling on with 4 new generations of leaves going all the time. At first I thought it had branched with all the new growth but it's still the single growth tip. Almost like it went into neutral in April and came out six months later. Here is the late great dead hamata I miss so much :cry::

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........here is the other one looking hopeful:
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Crazy how they are solid green with no purple pattern at all, mine had pattens right away. Are these seed grown, is your light dim or old?

A lot of leaves growing at once is a sign that your temps are not cool enough, notice how each new leaf is smaller than the last.
 
Got it the same time as the other one and they were both green up until they aged a bit. Plenty of light, 4 T5 cool white tubes supplemented by a 2' x 8' skylight. Night temps are upper 40's in the wine cooler or unheated room and day upper 70's in the bathroom / greenhouse. Three Sunpent SU-2020 ultrasonic humidifiers gunning as much humidity as I need to about 85%. Everything is good and all of those new leaves will expand to be larger than the previous ones. This is exactly what the other one did in late winter last year and grew by leaps and bounds to reach the size in the first pictures. I forgot to mention that I fertilized with orchid fert a couple of weeks ago which could account for the multiple new leaves. I will post a new picture update every couple of weeks as it develops. It's the same story with the villosa only as expected a much slower grower.
Thanks for the response.

villosa: Things got a little too warm in August before I moved it to an aquarium situation and caused the yellowing pitchers on the older foliage. Within a month or so of going back and forth from aquarium to wine cooler at night the new growth took off.
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Did you figure out what exactly caused the sudden collapse of the plants once they moved into the cooler? It had to be something about the cooler, since their collapse happened so fast (5 days!).
 
The cooler wasn't the problem, it was the sudden burst of warmth from mother nature rendering the unheated room at night useless. Had the cooler arrived sooner it would have been business as usual. I don't know why I didn't think to stick it into the fridge....duh, but I lost a really cool plant. A set-up that relies on technology, mother nature and a clunky Nep-newbee was a perfect storm just begging to happen. Like with my Ceph's I manipulated the lighting with the hamata to produce green pitchers with dark peristomes in case anyone is wondering why the plant it so green. I learned from the tragedy and the other hamata and villosa will be OK I'm sure and once I feel I have an adequate process going I might get another mac.

Really liked the mac even though it was a one-incher. It was just beginning to take off when it dropped.
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/me stares slack-jawed at the sea of bisquamata.....
 
Ha, when I posted this plant a year ago people here freaked telling me how contagious that plant is and how it would infect the whole collection. Turns out it wasn't and didn't and even after flowering profusely none turned up in any other container. I did however move the mac to a new pot with fresh NZS and placed the old one as a display item. I accidentally allowed it to dry out and now I find myself missing that little invader. Anyone care to send me yours? :-O
 
Don't feel bad, I have lost three the same way. I don't understand how I can keep other Highland varieties without any problems, but when it comes to N. hamates’.. I have a very costly brown thumb.

I have tried different methods to cool them at night, but without an airconditioned control system all day, it seems hopeless for me.
I was hoping to find a larger plant that was hardened to a greenhouse environment, but I’m getting skittish about trying them again.
 
I get the feeling that the hamata goes through a rest period and if watering isn't cut back the roots rot off. As it turns out my remaining hamata in the picture above has developed two growth points and is working on a third which explains the multiple new leaves. One of my sons nasty female friends stayed over and walked off with my magnifier visor so it wasn't until the new one arrived that I was able to view a closeup and see what is going on with the hamata. I guess I need new glasses too if I couldn't see that without the visor.
 
  • #10
It would be nice if there were a definitive guide to successfully raising hamata's ;)

I have asked other growers that appear to be growing them, but I either get no response, or, research it yourself, or "ask me after you have been growing these plants for 20 years :)
 
  • #11
That wasn't friendly was it? I think as with any hobby there is a small core group that see anyone new to the hobby as fly-by-nighters to be ignored and then there are elitists who like the idea of having what few have so offer little in the way of help. They should remember that everyone begins as a newbie and give newbie newbie's the benefit of their knowledge. I found people here to be pretty forthcoming so far so nothing I said is directed at any of my post responders. If I had the cash I would build a stock of hamata's and do some real research or better yet visit their South Pacific habitat for a month or so and take readings and get information from the locals about the weather there. I am still leaning towards a rest period or maybe a looser than normal medium that drains moisture away much quicker than normal. I have over the last month or so ordered in a dozen high altitude Nep's because the seller and his plants are top notch and because I have become a bit more proficient than before. The same ones from Eastern Europe have all since died but the ones from the new guy not only seem to thrive but show new growth within a couple of days after arrival. The ones that died were leggy with almost non-existent roots and stems that seemed too woody to produce new roots. I even cut them off below the foliage when nothing else worked and re-planted but couldn't get new roots that way either. I currently do RC Tanks, and restore old Honda bikes so when things get dicey in the green room I tend to migrate to one of the other goodies.
 
  • #12
It would be nice if there were a definitive guide to successfully raising hamata's ;)

I have asked other growers that appear to be growing them, but I either get no response, or, research it yourself, or "ask me after you have been growing these plants for 20 years :)

I guess I've been lucky. Most growers I know are happy to share their experiences and growing techniques.

Regarding Nepenthes hamata, it grows well in my conditions. Specifically, a small outdoor greenhouse in coastal CA. Temps vary with the season -- 50 to60F at night and 70 to 80 during the day.
RH around 60 to 70% during the day, up to 90+ at night. Outside vents plus fans for good air movement. Substrate is pure live sphagnum or bark based mix with topdressing of live moss. Plants watered nearly every sunny day.

Hope this helps a little...
 
  • #13
Please don't mis-understand, I wasn't trying to be rude or nasty, but I was just telling the truth. It's like this in a lot of group hobbies like this, which seems to bring this out in some people. I don't consider myself a newbie, but it doesn't help inspire new-comers who are truly interested in learning how to enter into the realm of exotic horticulture. Mentors nurtures and inspire. What is the truth that some people believe that if it took them years of trial and error to figure it out, then others don't need a helping hand, let them fail a few hundred times at a great cost. I just can help to think of the many plants that have died due to the lack of valuable information available. It might be just as simple to say, not everyone’s growing conditions are identical, and due to the finicky nature of the plant, you either find one that lives and thrives, or end up with a dead one inside of six months. The plants I bought were from other growers, and the plants look like they were in great condition when I bought them, but it seems that the info on the plants growing conditions while in their care was not given to me, other than the straight cut-n-paste on how to grow highland Nepenthes. An example,… what was the media the plant was in before you yanked it out of the pot and wrapped it in LFS for shipping …. The answer ….. OH No response! I would have at least like to try to repot the poor plant in the same media it was growing in to reduce the transplant shock… So with that being said. I will get off my soapbox. And leave this last comment. How many of these RARE, SLOW GROWING, EXPENSIVE plants do we have to kill before get we can get it right… You will know when you can get one to grow. ;)

BTW, Thank you KPG, at least that is good info. and a warning to those of us wanting to grow these plants, and cannot provide them with these conditions.
 
  • #14
Please don't mis-understand, I wasn't trying to be rude or nasty, but I was just telling the truth. It's like this in a lot of group hobbies like this, which seems to bring this out in some people. I don't consider myself a newbie, but it doesn't help inspire new-comers who are truly interested in learning how to enter into the realm of exotic horticulture. Mentors nurtures and inspire. What is the truth that some people believe that if it took them years of trial and error to figure it out, then others don't need a helping hand, let them fail a few hundred times at a great cost.
Interesting ... my experiences with growing CPs has been virtually the opposite of this. I've found most experienced growers to be very sharing with their experiences (& frequently with their plants).

I just can help to think of the many plants that have died due to the lack of valuable information available. It might be just as simple to say, not everyone’s growing conditions are identical, and due to the finicky nature of the plant, you either find one that lives and thrives, or end up with a dead one inside of six months. The plants I bought were from other growers, and the plants look like they were in great condition when I bought them, but it seems that the info on the plants growing conditions while in their care was not given to me, other than the straight cut-n-paste on how to grow highland Nepenthes.
The "straight cut-n-paste on how to grow highland Nepenthes" is probably a good place to start. Many new growers look for the secret tip or special growth secret or hidden media ingredient & overlook the basics. Since we're in a thread about a dead hamata, what killed this plant? Yup - the lack of the basics. Rather than prepare for the hot temps that were coming before the plant was purchased, the op tried to prepare after, got caught with hi temps, plant died. This was a basic for a highland plant - reasonably cool temps. This is not easy to do so many noobs want a secret ingredient that will allow them to avoid the basics.

An example,… what was the media the plant was in before you yanked it out of the pot and wrapped it in LFS for shipping …. The answer ….. OH No response! I would have at least like to try to repot the poor plant in the same media it was growing in to reduce the transplant shock…
While it was probably rude of the grower to not respond, the specific makeup of his growing media was not likely a critical component for the plant living or dying.

So with that being said. I will get off my soapbox. And leave this last comment. How many of these RARE, SLOW GROWING, EXPENSIVE plants do we have to kill before get we can get it right…
The number of extremely helpful growers & the wealth of information on this site (& others) that is available with a simple search - should keep anyone from killing these "RARE, SLOW GROWING, EXPENSIVE plants" - imho. Maybe I got lucky with the two rootless Wistuba hamatas that I grew - but I know that I didn't hide anything when I shared my experiences ...
 
  • #15
Interesting ... my experiences with growing CPs has been virtually the opposite of this. I've found most experienced growers to be very sharing with their experiences (& frequently with their plants).

The "straight cut-n-paste on how to grow highland Nepenthes" is probably a good place to start. Many new growers look for the secret tip or special growth secret or hidden media ingredient & overlook the basics. Since we're in a thread about a dead hamata, what killed this plant? Yup - the lack of the basics. Rather than prepare for the hot temps that were coming before the plant was purchased, the op tried to prepare after, got caught with hi temps, plant died. This was a basic for a highland plant - reasonably cool temps. This is not easy to do so many noobs want a secret ingredient that will allow them to avoid the basics.

While it was probably rude of the grower to not respond, the specific makeup of his growing media was not likely a critical component for the plant living or dying.

The number of extremely helpful growers & the wealth of information on this site (& others) that is available with a simple search - should keep anyone from killing these "RARE, SLOW GROWING, EXPENSIVE plants" - imho. Maybe I got lucky with the two rootless Wistuba hamatas that I grew - but I know that I didn't hide anything when I shared my experiences ...

+1
Well said, Ron. I concur.
 
  • #16
I live at 7000ft elevation and in the high desert, and thou I can provide daytime temps of 70 to 80 and during the summer there are unfortunately days that the temps get into the 90’s. I’m only able to support my plants in large tents where I can maintain the proper RH of 60 to 90%. I use circulation fans to keep the air moving. The media, for my plants is a mix of bark, perlite, and LFS. The problem was getting the temps down at night. Indoors, they hover around 55 in winter and mid 60’s to low 70’s during the summer with a little mechanical help.

I know that I killed mine due to not being able to get that night time temp down. If I were able to keep them in a secure outdoor enclosure, I might have better luck since during the summer, the evening temps get to the mid 50’s.

It was just out of disgust that I appeared to lash out. I know that I’m not the only one out there that has had specific growing issues, and I have found out that for the most part, it specific to the plant. It was a conceit of mine that I thought I would have NO problem growing them since I have had no issues with other Ultra Highlanders, thou I have stayed away from rajah and macrophiylla. It was just a head scratcher for me.

Ron, I have found (just my observation, and possibly wrong ), that others like yourself that live in the cooler, coastal, or near the great lakes have had great success with hamata’s, when they have been keeping them outdoors or even on their windowsills, since the humidity is higher and the nights are much cooler. Thank you for your input.

I haven’t given up all hope on getting another, but I know I will need to find a larger plant if at all possible to see if it will be sturdier to my growing conditions.

Spooky, I apologize; it was my intent to hijack your thread. I know we will keep slugging away until we are successful!
 
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  • #17
@RL7836: I totally agree, many growers on this forum and other resources are incredibly generous with their knowledge and plants, but MurphysLaw has a point. I think it would be really cool to have something like a stackoverflow of CP care, where users can share their experiences at one source and the community can chose the best answers to common cultivation problems. Many deaths of expensive plants are caused by newbies lacking knowledge, but the presentation of the info could be more user friendly. It's much easier for a newbie to go to the hamata (or better yet highland nepenthes) care page than to search through a multitude of threads or ask more experienced growers in an new and unfamiliar community.
 
  • #18
@ Murphy -

Everyone's got their own personality on the internet and sometimes silence or terse responses are really just a reflection of how busy someone may be or what their other priorities in life may be. It just might not be the forums. . .

On the other hand when I (we) lose another really expensive plant that we loved dearly and we thought we did all we could for, it's not uncommon to want to lash out and say, "why don't all you jerks who successfully grow this plant tell me how to do it!!?" The thing is Nepenthes are just very particular and unusual plants and even the most experienced of growers may not necessarily be able to explain to you how to grow a specific species or how to get a Nepenthes to flower, or how to stimulate upper pitcher growth or whatever, etc etc.

As you have unfortunately found, climate plays a huge role in whether we will be able to grow a plant successfully. Some people find growing hamatas on windowsills easy, others have them just sitting in their green house, others yet have air conditioned basement plant caves that never see the actual elements of nature. Whatever the case is, climate dictates how we will be able to successfully grow these plants. The less like their native tropical mountains our homes are, the more work, electricity and effort we will have to use in order to make them happy.

TLDR: I feel you, it's normal to feel that way. But as Ron said, there ARE loads of super cool pros on this website and others. After a little while you may just find yourself on the receiving end of their generosity and it will be awesome. :banana2:
 
  • #19
I have asked other growers that appear to be growing them, but I either get no response, or, research it yourself, or "ask me after you have been growing these plants for 20 years :)

I have never, ever had anyone from this (or any other) CP group treat me in this manner; people have been - without exception - free with their knowledge and courteous and patient when I have sought help or suggestions.
 
  • #20
I have never, ever had anyone from this (or any other) CP group treat me in this manner; people have been - without exception - free with their knowledge and courteous and patient when I have sought help or suggestions.
My experience has been the same. Even as a new comer to this site, I PM'd some members here for information and they have spent the time and given me more info than I asked for. LOL
 
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