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Thread: How old is too old?

  1. #73
    Lechenaultia's Avatar
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    Dear SirKristoff-san,

    Konnichiwa!

    Thank you very much for your reply!

    Quote Originally Posted by SirKristoff View Post
    Though treating your seeds with GA3 seems to help a lot as well, I am old school and sow my seeds intact on milled sphagnum.
    I might post something about it in the future.

    It's a great news that you have N. edwardsiana seedlings. I have a few of batches of seedlings. One of them, I sowed the seeds on Feb 24 in 2018. Please see attached photos.
    How old is too old?-20180517_1-jpg
    https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/975/41...89552615_o.jpg
    How old is too old?-20180517_2-jpg
    https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/906/42...0bb4087e_o.jpg
    N. edwardsiana seedling(s). I took the photos on May 17 in 2018.

    I hope you can post the progress of your seedlings with the growing tips in your thread. I would like to refer to your Nepenthes edwardsiana growing techniques.
    I have sown Nepenthes seeds in recent years. But almost seedlings have been neglected in the plastic containers or in vitro. I have transplanted some seedlings to Oasis foam on a whim. But almost all are still in the plastic containers. I would like to grow them. There is a lot I can learn from you.

    How old is too old?-20180517_3-jpg
    https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/972/27...c5a5e218_o.jpg
    small plants of N. rafflesiana x ampullaria (approximately one year after transplanting from the plastic container (the below photos).
    I took the photo on May 17 in 2018

    How old is too old?-20180517_4-jpg
    https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/826/41...0111e6a0_o.jpg
    small plants of N. Viking x ampullaria (approximately one year after transplanting from the plastic container)
    I took the photo on May 17 in 2018

    How old is too old?-20180517_5-jpg
    https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/972/42...ea7f4bd2_o.jpg
    How old is too old?-20180517_6-jpg
    https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/825/41...e4052eda_o.jpg
    tiny seedlings of N. rafflesiana x ampullaria (but 18 months old seedlings: I sowed the seeds on Nov. 6 in 2016. definitely neglected!!!)
    I took the photos on May 17 in 2018

    Kind regard from the Far East
    Last edited by Lechenaultia; 05-19-2018 at 10:27 PM. Reason: typo

  2. #74
    SirKristoff's Avatar
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    Incredible germination there man! Are all of these sprouted removing the seed coat from the embryo?
    I have several batches of seedlings going currently of different species and hybrids but I do not get the germination you do, at least like the raff x amp you posted, those are incredible!

    When sowing seeds in vitro with a friend of mine who does TC we treat the seed with GA3 (Gibberellic Acid) have you tried this in vitro or in vivo in your conditions??

    Do you place your seed sewn in vivo vs vitro under lights or allow them to have a short dark period before germination? There are several different methods people have had success with, and in some cases more success/higher germ rates using the dark period method.

    There is still so much to learn about Nepenthes, I am curious to how you remove your seed coat! If you would be so kind as to give me a tutorial I would be quite thankful, as I would like to try it myself!

    Thanks!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  3. #75
    Lechenaultia's Avatar
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    Dear SirKristoff-san,

    Konnichiwa!
    Quote Originally Posted by SirKristoff View Post
    Incredible germination there man! Are all of these sprouted removing the seed coat from the embryo?
    No, I did not remove the seed husks. The seeds were very fresh and were high quality. I obtained the seeds from the skilled Nepenthes grower. Unfortunately, I do not know mass treatment method. (It might be feasible by using some kind of enzyme.) I can process only 200-250 seeds without any breaks.

    Quote Originally Posted by SirKristoff View Post
    When sowing seeds in vitro with a friend of mine who does TC we treat the seed with GA3 (Gibberellic Acid) have you tried this in vitro or in vivo in your conditions??
    I use the pretreatment liquid before sowing seeds, regardless of seed with husk or seed without husk. I would decline to write the recipe here for the moment. I maybe write later. I do not prove the effect of the liquid on Nepenthes seeds yet. I do not want any kind of riot in this thread any more. If you would like to know, I send the cocktail recipe to you (PM). But I cannot guarantee your success.

    Quote Originally Posted by SirKristoff View Post
    Do you place your seed sewn in vivo vs vitro under lights or allow them to have a short dark period before germination? There are several different methods people have had success with, and in some cases more success/higher germ rates using the dark period method.
    I place the plastic containers (or the test tubes) in dark condition for 7-10 days at the beginning.

    Quote Originally Posted by SirKristoff View Post
    There is still so much to learn about Nepenthes, I am curious to how you remove your seed coat! If you would be so kind as to give me a tutorial I would be quite thankful, as I would like to try it myself!
    It is beyond my English skill's ability. When I obtain a USB camera that can attach the stereoscopic microscope, I might make a movie (tutorial). I would send the YouTube link to you. But I believe you can do it and will get used to doing it soon without my explanation, if you have good tweezers, a needle and the stereoscopic microscope.
    Please see attached photo again.
    How old is too old?-20180306_204911-jpg
    https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4696/4...2f113456_o.jpg
    The paper is not dry. The seeds were between wet papers for 10 minutes. If you use GA3 solution for the pretreatment, Please wet the paper with the GA solution.

    Kind regards from the Far East

  4. #76
    hcarlton's Avatar
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    Since this is undoubtedly the oldest Nepenthes seed I have ever seen confirmed germinating, this begs a new question: is it a trait that might be found among a wide spectrum of Nepenthes species, or only certain lineages? N. eymae being a relative of N. maxima is among those adapted to regions that can have rather varying climate conditions across their range, perhaps holds a trait permitting seeds to remain viable but dormant for long periods waiting for the right conditions. I doubt many lowland species would be similar, growing in constant conditions suitable for germination, but perhaps this is something found readily in species like the Indochinese pyrophytes, or madagascariensis and pervillei.
    Everything has a reason, whether big or small. Never underestimate the power of what is or is not.
    There is far more to everything than meets the eye.
    Growlist

  5. #77
    nimbulan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hcarlton View Post
    Since this is undoubtedly the oldest Nepenthes seed I have ever seen confirmed germinating, this begs a new question: is it a trait that might be found among a wide spectrum of Nepenthes species, or only certain lineages? N. eymae being a relative of N. maxima is among those adapted to regions that can have rather varying climate conditions across their range, perhaps holds a trait permitting seeds to remain viable but dormant for long periods waiting for the right conditions. I doubt many lowland species would be similar, growing in constant conditions suitable for germination, but perhaps this is something found readily in species like the Indochinese pyrophytes, or madagascariensis and pervillei.
    I know that N. pervillei and N. vieillardii seeds can last a long time, and have heard about N. sanguinea storing well too. There really isn't much information out there.

  6. #78

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lechenaultia View Post
    My thought for the moment,
    1: the seeds should be high quality in the first place.
    2: cold storage is necessary.
    3: keep or control the seed moisture content (IMPORTANT)
    4: inhibit propagation of bacteria and fungus
    5: something I have no idea

    Thank you very much again!!!

    Kind regards from the Far East
    Greetings Lechenaultia,
    Since this has become a ten page thread, I might have missed the one particular post of yours, but could you elaborate point 3: "keep or control the seed moisture content " ? How do you control the moisture of nepenthes seeds in your refrigerator. in comparison to drosera seeds or sort of cold stratification like sarracenia seeds?
    BTW your PM option seems to be disabled. Again congrats on your achievement and thank you for the continuous contribution.

  7. #79
    Lechenaultia's Avatar
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    Dear Jasonh-san,

    Konnichiwa!

    Thank you very much for your reply!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jasonh View Post
    BTW your PM option seems to be disabled.
    Oops! I completely forgot about my settings. I will change it soon.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jasonh View Post
    Since this has become a ten page thread, I might have missed the one particular post of yours, but could you elaborate point 3: "keep or control the seed moisture content " ? How do you control the moisture of nepenthes seeds in your refrigerator. in comparison to drosera seeds or sort of cold stratification like sarracenia seeds?
    My thought is the unfounded conjecture.
    I store many kind of seeds with silica gel. I store seeds with silica gel in plastic packets or sealed plastic containers. Especially Australian species (including non-cp). Regarding cps, I have succeeded to store Byblis seeds for ten years with silica gel.
    Please go to: http://www.cpukforum.com/forum/index...stem%E2%80%99/
    (I have created several threads to be related to Byblis on the forum. please see them if you are interested in Byblis)

    I can't recollect my motive, but I have always stored all Nepenthes seeds without silica gel in my refrigerator. My friend sent Nepenthes eymae seeds to me using the envelope that the inside of it was made of bubble wrap. In the refrigerator, the envelope has not been sealed up completely. However the seeds seemed to be saved from the drying. I have never succeeded in the germination from the shriveled Nepenthes seeds (actual seed inside the husk).

    In the same post, I wrote:
    Quote Originally Posted by Lechenaultia View Post
    Dear N_CloudySkies-san,
    We may encounter the same problem that zoos have already had. I wish that skilled botanists, skilled nurseries and skilled growers would have the concern about this matter.
    I meant "How to avoid the inbreeding depression".
    From my experience of the Byblis breeding programs, I was made acutely aware of the inbreeding depression in the allogamous plant. How quickly to appear (in a few generations)!
    Almost Byblis species (except many of B. liniflora variations) are the allogamous plants. Almost Byblis aff. filifolia species I selected my Byblis breeding programs with are the complete allogamous plants.
    Nepenthes is a dioecious species that is the benchmark for a complete allogamous plant. Of course I know Nepenthes is the perennial plant. The vegetative propagation is easy basically.
    However when we realize the importance of the sexual reproduction and carry out it. I believe we will encounter the inbreeding depression in the cultivated Nepenthes plants in our child or grandchild's generations (I hope some of them will be interested in Nepenthes).

    Kind regards from the Far East
    Last edited by Lechenaultia; 06-02-2018 at 06:18 PM.

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