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Thread: How old is too old?

  1. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Swagalotus View Post
    The seed peeling thing is very interesting, especially considering how thing and small nepenthes seed are. Perhaps this could cause the seedlings to look different upon germination, assuming they are in fact nepenthes?
    I don't know too much about this, but from what I have learned, removing the seed coat should have no effect on the appearance of seedlings. Mature seeds already have full cotyledons.

    It seems to me that we'll know if they're nepenthes seeds within a few weeks, because either they'll produce pitchers or they won't. Ensuring that the seedlings are nepenthes eymae would obviously be more challenging, but if they're nepenthes I see no particular reason to think that they were misidentified. The soil having been autoclaved does make it seem far less likely that these are contaminants, but I will hold out until pitchers before I'm totally confident.
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  2. #26
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    Things that would have been good to know at the start of this: that the seeds were altered dramatically (though in some of the photos what appears to be full Nepenthes seeds are present on the soil next to the germinating plants) and that the soil had been heat-treated. However, this still doesn't explain why these seeds are germinating with appearances so unlike any other Nepenthes (while perhaps it's a trait of the species to have such thick cotyledons and odd stems, I've germinated N. maxima seeds and that species is incredibly close to eymae which means some traits should be shared due to close ancestry, and no such luck), and it's not impossible for some seeds of other plants to survive extreme heat for extended periods of time; conditions like this are used to force germination of some.
    But, as schmiggle said, the one thing that will remove all doubt about at least the genus identity of these is what the first true leaf looks like; if there is an immature pitcher present, then this will be likely the recording of the oldest Nepenthes seeds successfully germinated. If anything else appears, then we'll know they're not.
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  3. #27
    Lechenaultia's Avatar
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    Dear Andrew-san,
    Konnichiwa!
    Thank you very much!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by adnedarn View Post
    legume floating in the room, too funny.


    Quote Originally Posted by adnedarn View Post
    I await your updates!

    Dewa mata!
    Please wait for a while.
    Soredewa mata! (until next time!)
    Last edited by Lechenaultia; 03-22-2018 at 05:47 AM.

  4. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by N_CloudySkies View Post
    Lowlanders that i have sowed have always been at least < 6 months. I consider them "fresh" in this range because of the success i have had in sowing them. I haven't had the chance to try with anything older than that in the way of lowlanders. Thank you for sharing your experience.
    Dear N_CloudySkies-san,
    Konnichiwa!
    Thank you very much for sharing your experiences!!!
    While waiting for the update02,
    I am not sure it is an appropriate thing species being categorized as Lowlanders, Intermediate or Highlanders, so far as the seed viability. But, among Lowlanders, the appearance of N. northiana seed is significantly different from N. ampullaria. We probably should consider to separate N. northiana from the amp/raff/bical group. What do you think of it, N_CloudySkies-san?
    I am trying to grow N. northiana from a few sourses. I feel N. northiana seed viability is a bit longer than I expected.
    How old is too old?-p3130002-jpg
    https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4779/4...10e57f09_o.jpg

    Another N. northiana seeds I obtained in April, 2016. I sowed them in the plastic container immediately. They started germinating on May 02 in 2016. I sowed the remainder of them in vitro on April 10 in 2017. I had stored the seeds in the refrigerator, no silica gel. I did not remove the seed husk in this case. They started germinating on June 10 in 2017. Please see attached photos, you can see the seed husks.
    How old is too old?-20180313_220038-jpg
    https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4773/3...a87f5012_o.jpg
    How old is too old?-20180313_220040-jpg
    https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4782/4...0199e34c_o.jpg
    Although they are neglected, they still look healthy, imo.....
    I took the photos on March 13 in 2018.

    Kind regards from the Far East
    Last edited by Lechenaultia; 03-13-2018 at 08:36 PM.

  5. #29
    Lechenaultia's Avatar
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    Both Nimbulan-san's Nepenthes seedlings and the Nepenthes seedlings in my photos are in cultivation, and not side by side.
    Soil moisture level, humidity level, lighting level....etc depending on the growers. The differences caused by these things are not important for discussing or describing the ID, IMO.
    I believe many great taxonomists made a mistake in youth, when they stuck to plants under cultivation conditions too much. Then they stamped indelibly on their mind as a moral.

    BTW, the naked seed method is a very common technique in the horticultural world. For example, Spinach
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    Last edited by Lechenaultia; 03-13-2018 at 07:58 AM.

  6. #30

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    Unhappy

    Hello Lechenaultia,

    Not sure if that categorization is appropriate either. I like it and use it as a general tool for growing and understanding but I tend to agree that we do need to go a bit deeper in the way we categorize nepenthes plants. Too much diversity with them not to do so. For this reason, I personally like the idea of putting an emphasis on seed study. I have noticed this diversity among seeds over the years. It is hard not to notice. Certainly Darwin's evolutionary forces shaped them in very unique ways for very specific reasons?

    I personally think that you may find seed viability will always tend to be a bit longer than you expect, I think viability among most all nepenthes seeds is a lot longer than what we may think and have/may read. I just never imagined something like N. eymae seeds from 2013......that is incredible. I would love to see those with far better skills than I answer that question just "how old is too old". That would be a very good thing for world-wide seed banks and preservation efforts for nepenthes? Just really positive.


    N. northiana warrants it's entirely own group..imo. Where it grows in nature, how it grows, what it looks like....just an amazingly unique nepenthes. Sadly, i am not good enough to grow one. For me, they are very difficult. I like the efforts you are doing in germinating those N. northiana seeds. They hardly look neglected. They look super in fact. I like the many different sources aspect of your seeds and that should make your experience really interesting with those. A huge thank you for sharing all that.
    Last edited by N_CloudySkies; 03-14-2018 at 10:26 AM.

  7. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by N_CloudySkies View Post
    N. northiana warrants it's entirely own group..imo. Where it grows in nature, how it grows, what it looks like....just an amazingly unique nepenthes. Sadly, i am not good enough to grow one. For me, they are very difficult. I like the efforts you are doing in germinating those N. northiana seeds. They hardly look neglected. They look super in fact. I like the many different sources aspect of your seeds and that should make your experience really interesting with those. A huge thank you for sharing all that.
    Don't be so sure you can't grow one. They don't require any special treatment in cultivation compared to other lowlanders.

  8. #32

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    That is very good to know.

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