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N. faizaliana

Hi,

I'm growing two different plants labeled N. faizaliana. One originates from Rob (Borneo Exotics) and the other one originates from Malesiana Tropicals. Both plants look so considerable different that I strongly suspect them being the same species. Both of my plants are quite small and so I'm not able to judge whether they are labeled correct or not:

Malesiana Tropicals clone:

N_faizaliana_0303.jpg


Borneo Exotics clone:

N_faizaliana_0703.jpg


So if anyone has grown these clones to a bigger size, I would be interested in what they look like when being bigger.

Cheers Joachim
 
Hi - I don't like posting links to other vendors here, but here's some info about that species from the Nepenthes University section of CP Jungle's website:

Nep University

N. faizaliana is discussed in the final paragraph.  Personally, I think your two plants look very similar, with similar variation as other species, but I'm an amateur.
 
Seems to be alot of unclear things about this plant.  I spent a fair amount of time at the greenhouse today looking at plants from Borneo Exotics, Wistuba, and Malesiana.  I did not do indepth comparisons with the description in Charles Clarkes Nepenthes of Borneo.  The plants themselves (not pitchers) all looked fairly similar.  Pitcher comparison yielded the same results you saw Joachim.  The ones from Malesiana look different from both the Borneo Exotics seedlings and the Wistuba clone.  The latter two were difficult to tell apart.  I really don't know what the deal is.  Perhaps just variation within the species as mentioned.  And what we are seeing is the result of collecting samples from different populations.  

Anyway.. Here is a picture of a slightly more mature clone from Malesiana.  I do have some good sized plants but it will be a few months before the pitchers develop.  This plant is not huge but has a decent pitcher about 8cm tall.  You can see pitcher shape and color is still fairly different.
Tony

nfaizmt.jpg


Similar size pitcher on Borneo Exotics seedling.
nfaizbe.jpg
 
Just got my N.faizaliana from Malesiana too this month. Basically the same as what Tony had posted though its a bit darker in color.


batch02.jpg
 
Unfortunately, I don't have much time on the forum just now but just couldn't miss this particular debate! It's been a debate for some time before your interesting posting Joachim. Particularly interesting because of the comparative photos.

The BE clone (actualy many clones) originated from seeds produced at Atlanta Botanic Gardens from what they believe to be adult N. faizalinana. Charles Clarke was asked by the curator whether he thought the parents were true N. faizailiana or not. Charles said that he believed they were. I was stading there at the time so I know what was said for sure, although I wasn't involved directly in the discussion.

The other side of the coin is that Ch'ien Lee has taken a look at photos of BE's N. faizaliana and believes them to be a variety of N fusca and not N. faizaliana on account of the non orbiculate lid. We disagree on this point for now. If the BE clone is not N. faizaliana then it is possibly an as yet undescribed species; I doubt it is N. fusca. You will find that as the plant matures it differs radically from the published description of N. fusca.

To me, the MT form of N. faizaliana has the appearance of a hybrid although Ch'ien is a very good taxonomist with extensive field experience. N. stenophylla has some similarities in appearance....

It could of course be that the original description of N. faizaliana as a species may turn out to be invalid. Stranger things have happened!

Rob
 
I have an ABG clone of faizaliana as well and I believe that it might be an F2 of a cross between a male and female from the first batch (I'd have to ask my source.) I have also been able to observe many other specimines from this batch of TC'd plants. The plants are all almost identical to Joachim's BE clone picture (slight variatoin in colour levels but that I think would be expected.)I would think that would argue against this plant being a hybrid as F2 hybrid crosses tend to display variable traits between offspring
 
Anyone know where Wistuba clone originated?

Here is a pic of a plant similar in size to the Malesiana and Borneo Exotics plants pictured.
nfaizaw.jpg

Tony
 
Hi,

many thanks for your replies!

Rob, can you tell us the location where your seeds of N. faizaliana originates from? I also would be very interested in a picture of a bigger pitcher of your clone.

I can't comment on Andreas plants - I've dropped him a note, but he seems te be on vacation. Andreas clone looks indeed very similar to the plants Rob sells.

From my interpretation of the reprint of the type description in Flora Malesiana Vol. 15, 2001 by Adam and Wilcock I also strongly suspect the N. faizaliana clone of Rob being labeled right. Pitcher shape and also the shape of the peristome are different from the description. Also the basal appendage under the lid is missing. I don't know how stable these features are, but I hope they used a typical and not an extreme clone of N. faizaliana for their description. Of course this clone looks very nice and showy!

The plant from Chien matches the description better - but the basal appendage is also missing. I'm not able to judge if this clone is labeled right. I hope it developes into a plant looking similar to the spectacular plants seen on photos from habit
smile.gif
BTW has anybody pictures of both parent plants?

Cheers Joachim
 
  • #10
I know Rob's source and I will attempt to get some more information from them when I next see them.
 
  • #11
Unfortunately, although I know that the seed ABG produced was from their in-house stock, I don't know where the parent plants originated from.  I agree with you Joachim, in that Andreas' plants look very similar to my clones.  As the plants get larger they develop interesting characteristics.  I'm at the highlands nursery right now but the weather has been terrible for photography.  I managed to take a few quick photos today of N. jacquelineae and possible hybrid (see another thread) and shall try to take a photo tomorow morning of one of the larger N. faizaliana  before I leave.

Cheers,

Rob
 
  • #12
I was at ABG today and asked about this plant. The seed were obtained by a man made cross between two plants labled faizaliana. Only the female flowers that were pollinated by the male were kept on the spike, all others were removed and the plant was isolated from all the other Neps in the greenhouse. While I was mistaken that my plant from there is an F2 generation I looked over all the plants that were on the bench and all have the same basic charactheristics so I believe that still holds well as an argument against the plant being a hybrid as one would expect a batch of hybrid plants to display markedly different characteristics due to random genetic segregation of parental genes.
 
  • #13
Hey Joachim,
My N. faizaliana looks like the one that Tony has from Borneo Exotics. You can see my plant at my website Nepenthes around the house. But since you and I have spoken already maybe you're familiar with the site! ;-)
I bought my plant from California Carnivores 3 years ago I believe. Don't know where they got their version.
 
  • #14
Pardon for my intrution, but I was wondering if the n. faizaliana a highland or a lowland. It sure is a beauty.
biggrin.gif
 
  • #15
Hey NepsAroundTheHouse,

I took your website as inspiration to grow neps around the house here in San Francisco. I also bought my first plant at California Carnivores, a ventricosa. Now I have 15 of them! Nice work!
biggrin.gif


Capslock
 
  • #16
Andenes,

Faizaliana is classified as a highland but I find it actually grows better as an intermediate. Mine is currently on my deck here in Atlanta and growing very well.
 
  • #18
Hi All:

I don't have much input for this topic, but i was just wondering if in fact:

N. faizaliana, N. fallax, and N. stenophylla are the same thing. maybe not, and that's what we are seeing here!!

Gus
 
  • #19
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Joachim Danz @ Sep. 09 2003,07:35)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Hi,

Dean Cook has now labeled his N. faizaliana as N. fusca Sarawak:

http://www.ourcpsite.com/wwwboard/messages/3460.html

Judging from the picture this could be one of Rob's plants. Is anyone in contact with Dean and has additional infos why he did this?

Cheers Joachim[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Hi
I have ordered a N. faizaliana from Rob, which I will be picking up this weekend. I too have noticed it is now classified on Robs list as N. fusca Sarawak. Have to ask him about the details.

Are you going to the EEE in Reading this weekend Joachim? I wonder if Andreas will be there?

cheers

bill
alien.gif
 
  • #20
Blah... time to change labels I guess, although I am not convinced it's N. fusca either
confused.gif


Have not heard anything myself. Rob is super busy getting ready for his trip to England.

T
 
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