Mystery sumatran nep

[Borneo]

Are there some Sumatran Nep experts out there?  This was grown from seed collected in Sumatra, supposedly from Gng Angasan in the N.W. of the island (which is home to several species of Nepenthes).  I can't make my mind up what it is. Any ideas anyone? The pitcher is about 8cm or 3" tall.  This isn't a competition by the way, I'm genuinely puzzled  

 

[rapture]

It kind of looks like some form of N. bongso/carunculata/ovata (all very similar). I'm not real sure. This might require some research

.

 

[GEORGE-CP]

looks like a form of N.sanguinea to me

 

[nepenthes gracilis]

Could it be a new species Rob? I love it whatever it is! If I had a reasonable guess I'd say a form of ovata myself....really can't guess! Maybe Jeff, Tony, or Andreas could help out.

 

[matti lord of the pings]

im thinking at this moment
n.rhombicaulis
or it's a new sp alot of new sp have been found there latley


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[Borneo]

Thanks everyone for the suggestions.  Sigh...  I really don't know what it is.  The seed definitely originated in Sumatra, that's all I can be sure of.  I thought of N. ovata too, but it doesn't have the characteristic appendage on the underside of the lid.  It might be a bit too immature for that though.  Guess we'll just have to wait and see. I've sent the photo to Charles Clarke and will let you know if he has any ideas.

Hey what's this?  

  That's a new one isn't it?  It looks a bit like me after decades of exposure to organophosphate insecticides!

 

[Tony Paroubek]

Sure does look to be in that N. ovata/bongso group. I think a more up personal look is needed so feel free to stick one in the package along with the Tbone steaks!

This is a picture of a young N. ovata with a 1.5" pitcher (4cm) roughly.

Color seems to take a while to develop fully. Has the color changed and gotten darker Rob? My ovata will get dark purple peristomes after a few weeks.
Tony

 

[joseph]

Well if he's putting the stamps directly on the hind side as you suggested, exactly which end of the package did you want him to stick the Nep in?

joe

 

[Borneo]

Ha! Ha! Joe.

I took that photo a couple of weeks back and am goign back to the highlands on Saturday, so I'll take another look-see then. he orange color seemed strange to me for N. ovata but could be just immaturity. Perhaps dark purple peristomes are coming!

Oddly enuogh, I just found your photo independently before reading yuor post by using the excellent photo finder at

http://www.humboldt.edu/~rrz7001/

From what I can see, yuor plant doesn't have an appendage under the lid either, so it's probably something that developes later. Assuming that is that your plant is actually N. ovata

 

[Tony Paroubek]

I was looking at that today on the larger plants. And although they seem to have more of an appendage now, I did not find any that I would call hook shaped at this point. Charles Clark mentions in his book that the hook appendage on N. ovata is unstable. Perhaps it is a maturity thing.. perhaps it is the instability aspect.. perhaps they are not N. ovata? At this point they seem to fit N. ovata description best. I will try and take a close up of the larger plant in the next day or two.
Tony

 

[Joachim Danz]

Hi,

although no expert in Nepenthes identification at all I also think it is closely related to the N. bongso - N. ovata - N. singalana group. Identification at this very young stage of growth is almost impossible from my point of view. The seed is wild collected, so it may also very well be a hybrid, which won't make it easier to identify.

The peristome of Tony's and Rob's plants are quite different in shape. Judging from the pictures of adult plants, I would guess Rob's plant is even more likely a N. ovata than Tony's plant - Which I also expect being labeled correct of course!

Sadly very few pictures of different clones of these very variable Sumatran species are accessible. The book of Clarke is great for sure and I really love it. Sadly he only shows one single lower pitcher of most species. From my point of view the pitchers shown are the most impressive ones he found. I believe not all of them reflect the typical appearance of a species well. I.e. some of the N. singalana clones being available over here show virtually no similarity to the picture of N. singalana in Clarke's book.

Joachim

 

[Tony Paroubek]

More pics YAY.. had to use the flash though as the weather is rather miserable today.  Note that pitcher size is from the base of the pitcher to the point where the lid connects to the top of the peristome.

N. bongso pitcher approximately 2.5"(6cm).  I took this one to show that at this point there appears to be nothing protruding at the base of the lid.  The pitcher opening is also wider and rounder in shape.  Color is not set yet since this pitcher is fairly new.  It will be dark purple soon.

Picture of the N. bongso plant.  I took this one to show the more spoon shaped leaf particularly where the tendril attaches it appears more round than in the N. ovata I looked at.

Large pitcher on N. ovata.. still don't see much of a crest under the lid on this plant. Pitcher approx 5" (13cm).  Also appears to me the pitcher opening is taller and narrower with more of a tear shape to it.  This pitcher will darken more and the peristome will reflex still.

Picture of the large N. ovata plant.  Took this one to show the leaf tip being much more pointy and extending out onto the tendril more.  I looked at the other N. ovata from the same source and they all appeared to have this leaf shape.

Pitcher from a different plant (same N. ovata source) which is showing a slight crest.  Approx. 3" pitcher (8cm).

I do have N. ovata and bongso from other sources but plants are small and show little differentiation.  Perhaps the crest only develops on large mature plants if it is going to develop at all.  As plants get larger it will be easier to compare between different sources as well.

What I find interesting with Robs plant is the peristome appears smoother with less pronounced ridges and teeth. The upper portion does not appear narrow and elongated. As well as no stripes on the peristome and purple blotches inside the pitcher.

Tony

 

[Borneo]

Thank you for all the photos and ideas everyone.  I've been off the forum for a while due to pressures of work  

Here are a couple of new photos of the same plant whose photo was originally posted above.  The photos were taken about 10 days ago and were taken approximately 2 weeks after the original photo:

whole plant:  

and a close-up of the pitcher:

As you can see, the color has changed a lot since the original photo two weeks before. More like Tony's plant now. I'll be up in the highlands again in about a week when there should be a new pitcher on that plant yaaaay!

 

[Guest]

Looks like Nepenthes gracilis, but then again so do all Nepenthes.

Seriously though, that's a nice plant. Robert, do you ever see Drosera when you're out in the field or is it only when you get back and you're picking their remains out of the cracks in your boots? Sorry if my post seems unusual - we had a very small CP gathering this weekend and no matter how hard I tried to change the subject, the conversation kept going back to those darn Nepenthes. What's a Drosera grower to do?!
Matt
PS friends, if you're waiting for a package from me, it won't be long!

 

[agustinfranco]

Hi all:

I was wondering what you were doing in this forum, Sundew Matt. Since it is very obvious that you hate Nepenthes!!!!!!!.

Agustin