TerraForums Venus Flytrap, Nepenthes, Drosera and more talk
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nepenthes gracilis
Nepenthes Specialist
Clint
Stay chooned in for more!
Actually I was thinking that just such a hybrid would be a neat plant for the simple fact of: highlander (hamata) X lowlander (bicalcarata) and the size difference between the two small (hamata) X enormous (bicalcarata) plus both species are very fast growers for their forms. Whether the pitchers would be beautiful or have toothed peristomes or whos pitcher shape they would take after is anybodys guess but this is a hybrid I have wanted to make ever since getting into Nepenthes. I have both plants, all I need are the flowers, my plants will probably all turn out to be male...
Also consider that bicals' fangs are not a dominant trait, and that current hybrids with bical don't show much more than nubs where there would be fangs. The closest thing to looking dangerous is the cross of rafflesiana x bicalcarata, which shows an elongation of the neck peristome just below the lid. Certain raffs, such as the giant forms, have that double ridge of teeth where the peristome elongates into the neck. The top of the ridge becomes somewhat fang like just below the lid.
I don't know of any hamata hybrids. Maybe there are some in nature. Are the peristome teeth a dominant trait, or do they disappear too? I would think crossing hamata to edwardsiana would make a mean looking hybrid-but good luck trying to pull that one off!
I still opt for the highland x lowland crosses for ease of cultivation- bicalcarata x villosa, merrilliana x rajah (not likely anytime soon), or something like rafflesiana x burbidgeae should be a realistic cross to achieve-and would be very attractive.
Trent
I don't know of any hamata hybrids. Maybe there are some in nature. Are the peristome teeth a dominant trait, or do they disappear too? I would think crossing hamata to edwardsiana would make a mean looking hybrid-but good luck trying to pull that one off!
I still opt for the highland x lowland crosses for ease of cultivation- bicalcarata x villosa, merrilliana x rajah (not likely anytime soon), or something like rafflesiana x burbidgeae should be a realistic cross to achieve-and would be very attractive.
Trent
Peristome ridges do not appear to be overly dominant much like the fangs of N. bicalcarata. You can get some idea how potential plants like N. hamata will react in a hybrid when you look at things using N. macrophylla, N. edwardsiana, N. villosa etc. What will be interesting are subsequent hybrids and F2 populations when you can get some recombination going and perhaps see some wider variety in morphological features. Of course this will depend on picking parent plants wisely for the desired traits (even if they are currently hidden in a recessive nature).
Here is a picture of an interesting cross of N. maxima x trusmadiensis showing 2 different clones. N. x trusmadiensis still maintains fairly prominent ridges while N. maxima doesn't.
One of the interesting features is N. macrophylla and apparently N. edwardsiana add alot to the width of the peristome. As evidenced by the clone on the left above and the following seedling from a cross of N. burbidgeae x N. edwardsiana.
All very exciting as the plants get more mature and produce larger pitchers. N. hamata hybrids are in the works as we speak and will probably start trickling to the market next Spring. SO time will tell
Tony
Here is a picture of an interesting cross of N. maxima x trusmadiensis showing 2 different clones. N. x trusmadiensis still maintains fairly prominent ridges while N. maxima doesn't.
One of the interesting features is N. macrophylla and apparently N. edwardsiana add alot to the width of the peristome. As evidenced by the clone on the left above and the following seedling from a cross of N. burbidgeae x N. edwardsiana.
All very exciting as the plants get more mature and produce larger pitchers. N. hamata hybrids are in the works as we speak and will probably start trickling to the market next Spring. SO time will tell
Tony
Those hamata crosses should be interesting. If any are crossed onto something lowland, they should adapt to outdoor/and or greenhouse growing in Florida.
SF, where would you put adult sized highland plants?
Tony, you mention the F2 hybrids showing recessive traits on a percentage of progeny. Right now we've got a handful of seedlings of (northiana x veitchii)x(northiana x veitchii), a sibling cross. They're way to juvenile to see much yet, but it will be interesting to see if a plant or two (very low germination, only 8 plants made to individual pots) favor veitchii or the "grandmother", northiana. Are you doing any breeding with Nepenthes on your own?
Trent
SF, where would you put adult sized highland plants?
Tony, you mention the F2 hybrids showing recessive traits on a percentage of progeny. Right now we've got a handful of seedlings of (northiana x veitchii)x(northiana x veitchii), a sibling cross. They're way to juvenile to see much yet, but it will be interesting to see if a plant or two (very low germination, only 8 plants made to individual pots) favor veitchii or the "grandmother", northiana. Are you doing any breeding with Nepenthes on your own?
Trent
Yes, I just mean in comparison to a large Nep the seedlings are cheap.
On a side note, I look at each plant more as an investment in enjoyment. How much will I enjoy that plant? I don't drink alcohol so Instead of one night on the town I get a plant that will continue to bring me enjoyment for the rest of my life. Is having a really awesome plant to look at for the next 40-50 years worth $50 or $100? Sure it is!
On a side note, I look at each plant more as an investment in enjoyment. How much will I enjoy that plant? I don't drink alcohol so Instead of one night on the town I get a plant that will continue to bring me enjoyment for the rest of my life. Is having a really awesome plant to look at for the next 40-50 years worth $50 or $100? Sure it is!
SF unfortunately I don't expect the N. hamata crosses to become available in mass quantity from TC. The grower usually only produces plants from seed.
Only a couple crosses are listed so far but I am sure more will come along in the future.
N. truncata x N. hamata
N. talangensis x N. hamata
Trent your cross sounds nice. Should be some monster Nepenthes! You should see some interesting traits. If you make the reasonable assumption that species are homozygous and cross 2 plants AA and BB your hybrids end up as AB. When you then sib cross 2 of those you end up with 25% AA 50% AB and 25% BB. Now consider that your dealing with 40 chromosomes or so.. It's alot like playing the lottery. Odds are that most of the offspring will still maintain a fairly equal portion of both parents but there is the slim chance that you end up with a plant that has a high portion of either the AA recombination or the BB recombination over the full set of all 40 chromosomes. There are other factors such as the number of genes controlling a particular trait and if they are on the same or different chromosomes.
Yes I do a little breeding but not alot at this point. Mainly due to space and a high proportion of immature plants!
Tony
Only a couple crosses are listed so far but I am sure more will come along in the future.
N. truncata x N. hamata
N. talangensis x N. hamata
Trent your cross sounds nice. Should be some monster Nepenthes! You should see some interesting traits. If you make the reasonable assumption that species are homozygous and cross 2 plants AA and BB your hybrids end up as AB. When you then sib cross 2 of those you end up with 25% AA 50% AB and 25% BB. Now consider that your dealing with 40 chromosomes or so.. It's alot like playing the lottery. Odds are that most of the offspring will still maintain a fairly equal portion of both parents but there is the slim chance that you end up with a plant that has a high portion of either the AA recombination or the BB recombination over the full set of all 40 chromosomes. There are other factors such as the number of genes controlling a particular trait and if they are on the same or different chromosomes.
Yes I do a little breeding but not alot at this point. Mainly due to space and a high proportion of immature plants!
Tony
