What's new
TerraForums Venus Flytrap, Nepenthes, Drosera and more talk

Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

N. hamata

  • #21
If I may assert my opinion Swords. I am a Christian and believe what is written in the Bible. It says quite plainly in the first couple of chapters that God created the world by divine fiat (ie He commanded it and it was done). This is where I'm coming from.

SF
 
  • #22
Yeah, but then it changed. (earth)

I'm a Christian too.
 
  • #23
Please keep the topic on track guys. If you want to discuss the history of evolution and religon take it to general discussions.
wink.gif
 
  • #24
k. I might keep outa posting in this thread since I dont have a hamata, and even if I did theres a good chance it wouldnt have pitchers. plus I wouldnt have much to say since I dont have much intrest in clone numbers and technical stuff like that and other things like that. but those pics are
wow.gif
 hamatas are so scary.
 
  • #25
Joachim,

Beautiful photos, and beautiful plant, as usual!!!

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Please keep the topic on track guys. If you want to discuss the history of evolution and religon take it to general discussions.
wink.gif

NG, I agree. As an avowed atheist, what can I say but -- Amen!
 
  • #26
I must say it is a little funny how you can claim being an atheist and use a religious term in the same sentence!

Back to the topic though. Hamata's are awesome! Nice pics all around!

SF
 
  • #27
I was attempting to put a kibosh on the whole possible bible vs science thing with my statement but apparently it didn't work!
wink.gif


(As I've stated before I try never to discuss my politics or personal thoughts in public because it's been my experience that my views are not popular.)
 
  • #28
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]I must say it is a little funny how you can claim being an atheist and use a religious term in the same sentence!

I think that was the point.
wink.gif


[b said:
Quote[/b] ](As I've stated before I try never to discuss my politics or personal thoughts in public because it's been my experience that my views are not popular.)

Popular ideas are frequently wrong... You can see this pretty easily if you ask a bunch of people which will fall faster, a lighter or heavier object (pencil and a television).

Sorry for contributing further offtopicity.
 
  • #29
Hi,

to answer the question of the origin of the plants Andreas sells, I asked him to look into this thread and the corresponding thread at the CP-UK-Forum ( http://www.cpukforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1967&start=0 ).

Here is his reply:

----------

Hallo Joachim,

Ich habe Klone, die aus verschiedenen Samen-Aufsammlingen stammen, beim Standort dürfte es sich wohl um den selben handeln. Klone mit vielen Zähnen halte ich übrigens für Hybriden mit N. tentaculata. Früher habe ich in der Tat N. hamata von MT zugekauft.

Gruß

Andreas

------------
Maybe not all of you might speak fluently german ;) , so here is my translation:

He writes that his clones origin from different seed collections. He believes the loaction was the same where the seeds Ch´ien refered to were collected. The plants he sold earlier in fact originated from MT as Ch´ien said. He adds that he believes that the clones with bigger number of teeths are in fact hybrids with N. tentaculata.

Cheers Joachim
 
  • #30
Dustin is right. the teeth are an adaptation to lure Nepenthephiles into aquiring the plants, thus furthering the continuation of the species, and spreading into new geographical regions-upstate New York, Minnesota etc.
biggrin.gif

Imho., those teeth function very much like the fangs on N. bicalcarata. Notice they are not aimed outward to ward off monkeys, but inward, to lead insects to a rather precarious position: hanging out over the pit of death. Foraging ants could easily loose their footing out on one of those teeth, plunging to their death in the trap. Edwardsiana and macrophylla do the same thing.
Trent
 
  • #31
Sorry this might be a silly question but it was stated that all these clones started from the same collection. Would it not be possible to collect some more seed in the wild to have more genetic diversity in the population of N. hamata in collections?

I realize that the plants are protected but considering that this would help insure a diverse population being grown around the world would it not make sense? or does any one have flowering size plants that might produce seed? and do we know if any of the clones are male or female?

Andre
 
  • #32
i am writhing in jealousy.....
 
  • #33
[b said:
Quote[/b] (seedling @ Feb. 11 2004,10:10)]Sorry this might be a silly question but it was stated that all these clones started from the same collection.
Huh, is my english that bad?

Joachim
 
  • #34
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Joachim Danz @ Feb. 11 2004,20:03)]
[b said:
Quote[/b] (seedling @ Feb. 11 2004,10:10)]Sorry this might be a silly question but it was stated that all these clones started from the same collection.
Huh, is my english that bad?

Joachim
HUH? What does your English have to do with my question?
 
  • #35
I think Joachim is stating he does not understand your question. Try a little rewording.

And AFAIK, the clones were mainly from Malesiana's stock. As there are red,black,green and purple variants.
 
  • #36
Ok to rephrase my question. Why cant we get new seeds from the wild to make new plants to clone?
 
  • #37
How do you think we get cloned plants? Seeds were collected and placed in vitro (Tissue Culture) and we have "cloned" plants. Why would we want more seeds when we already have many N. hamata variants in circulation. I'm still unclear on to what your point is.
 
  • #38
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Ch'ien Lee @ Dec. 12 2003,18:56)] Also, AFAIK nearly all of the N. hamata plants being circulated in the US orginate at some point or other from the MT stock.  These plants come from a single seed collection made in Central Sulawesi in 1996 and are composed of 18 different sibling clones.  There was a small bit of variation in these clones, mostly in the length and density of the peristome teeth, but also somewhat in the coloration (one clone was nearly black both inside and outside the pitchers) and the extent of bristles on the lid.
Ok one last try : I am not trying to make a point, I was asking a question. If I understand correctly most of the plants in circulation are clones from the same original seed batch. I was just wondering why no one has tried to get more seed to have a greater diversity of plants? It just seemed to me to have only 18 plants to base a gene pool on is not much. I don't claim to know much about genetics so thats why I am asking.
 
  • #39
Difficulties and expense in collecting the seed.. In some cases potential risk to ones own life in certain parts of the world.

T
 
  • #40
[b said:
Quote[/b] (seedling @ Feb. 13 2004,18:22)]
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Ch'ien Lee @ Dec. 12 2003,18:56)] Also, AFAIK nearly all of the N. hamata plants being circulated in the US orginate at some point or other from the MT stock. These plants come from a single seed collection made in Central Sulawesi in 1996 and are composed of 18 different sibling clones.
Hi seedling,

yes, I did understand your question, but the speculation Ch'ien made about a single seed collection is not true. In my translation of Andreas Wistuba's email I wrote that he has clones from different seed collections. This means that there had been at least two different seed collections and not all plants in cultivation originate from the same seed collection. - It seems that this wasn't clear in my post.

And in answer to your question I'd think 18 different clones are quite good. In case of N. rajah and N. clipeata there are only three or four different clones in cultivation (apart from wild collected plants - which was legal many years ago). AFAIK N. hamata is not endagered in habit so there is no need to have a genetic pool in cultivation. In case of N. clipeata the situation is different. N. clipeata has not been found in habit and seems to be extinct (due to environment changes and most propably over-collection of Nepenthes enthusiasts
sad.gif
). So a program to reestablish N. clipeata on G. Kelam has been started and therefore a big genetic pool is of course very valuable.

Cheers Joachim
 
Back
Top