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N. albomarginata not pitchering

I've had my Albo for a bout 3 months.

It was purchased as a rooted and growing cutting with about 6-8 leaves and no pitchers.  It is vining quite rapidly and has added 5-6 leaves and about 30cm in height.

However it is not pitchering.

Although I am not completely discounting it, I feel that light is not an issue as all other Neps are pitchering just fine.  Does Albo need more light than most other Neps?

Humidity is mostly over 80% but there may be short periods of say 15-30 minutes where the humidity CAN drop to 50% on hot days in-between spray cycles.  I have plans to fix this by removing the spray timer and adding a swing-arm moisture sensor.

Temps are intermediate’ish with about 15C (60F) nights and 25-30C (77-86F) days.

Any ideas why it's being so stubborn to pitcher yet is still growing very rapidly or is there a clear issue with my parameters that I have missed?

Thanks,

Aaron.
 
Hi Aaron,

I am growing albomarginata outdoors in the Philippine lowlands and it has no problems pitchering (whereas N. rafflesiana for example prefers waiting for the rainy season!). Although this location might sound very steamy, we didn't have rain for about 4 months and humidity dropping down to 40/50% during the day, combined with strong winds.
It might receive 1-2 hours of full (!) sunshine, aside from that it is shaded by other objects, still the indirect light might be quite strong.
It gets six times a day irrigated for 4 mins each.
Now, what's the conclusion ?
smile.gif

It's probably not the humidity, which is always suggested when a Nep is not pitchering. The mayor difference in our growing conditions is the night time low, which is only 24 deg celsius here.
If that's a reason not to pitcher? I don't know.
Maybe one day it will just surprise you and pitcher anyway. The pitchers last quite a bit, which is nice.
Happy growing, Volker
 
Mine pitchered well when kept in lowland conditions. I would suspect that the nighttime temp is your problem. Generally speaking, it can take a lot of light. Mine gets a couple hours of late afternoon New England sun and seems to like it.
 
Aha! Mine isn't pitchering either! I think it may be time to replace the bulbs!
 
Thanks guys.

Volker,
Interesting thoughts on the humidity.  However, (as you noted) the more I think about it the nightly temp drop does seem to be the biggest differential between my conditions and those that are doing well with Albos.

The interesting thing is that I have 3x varieties of Rafflesiana, all doing well.  They are not the fastest growers but all pitcher nicely when they get to it.  I also have 2x Truncatas which perform about the same as the Raffs.

D,
I'm getting about 6 hours of direct light now depending on the weather/cloud cover.  I'd not expect it to get much less than that as we are nearing the shortest day of the year.  It's not direct sun as I have the glasshouse lined with a layer of thin bubble wrap.  However, the light is enough that I do get substantial reddening of the leaves on quite a few of my Nep species.

Unfortunately the lowlanders are in the minority and I'm not inclined to adjust the temps specifically for them so I'll just have to see how the Albo goes... OR save my money for a second glasshouse
biggrin.gif


Aaron.
 
Aaron, I think you have a good handle on it, but I can relate my experiences. I have a N. albo "purple" that has pitchered on every leaf it makes, and does so rapidly and regularly. It is in about 60-80% humidity, and daytime temps of about 78 degrees, and nighttime of 63-65 year round. This is fairly close to yours. The only thing I can think of is that yours seems to be a lot taller, my plant has new leafs right on top of old leafs, and no vining at all to speak of. Perhaps yours is vining, and is reluctant to pitcher because they would be uppers rather than lowers. This could be totally off, but it's all I can think of.

Capslock
 
Interesting thoughts there Caps.  So it might be putting it's energy into vining as opposed to pitchering!?

This theory could also explain why it had no pitchers when I got it from the grower.  If it is common behaviour for and Albo to not pitcher while vining and this was a cutting from a vining plant, then that MIGHT be an explanation.

Does anyone have  a 'vining' Albo that is still pitchering?

I'll post a picture tonight to show just how fast this thing is vining.  At the moment each new leave is at least 5cm from the previous and they are getting further and further apart with each leaf.

BTW, this is a green form.

Aaron.
 
My N. albomarginatas pitcher while vining but more on and off than with every leaf. Try giving the tendrils something to grasp or let them trail into the surface of something. Some Nepenthes don't seem to skip a beat when they hit vining phase others are real bears to make pitchers, even under ideal conditions.

Tony
 
Yes, I like the vining & grasp theory, too. Because my albo's aren't vining yet.
Plus, I could imagine that temperatures on Penang Hill in Malaysia (natural habitat of the red form) drop also below 24 deg Celsius at night. At the height maybe to 18 degrees. The green form is however from Kuching as far as i remember. Not sure about the elevation there.
 
  • #10
Here's a pic of mine. Note the closely spaced leaves. I have nothing resembling vining going on yet.
N_albomarginata_4.jpg


Capslock
 
  • #11
Thanks Tony & Volker,

Your ideas certainly sound plausable however, the leaves are not throwing tendrils.  As the leaf develops there is the young pitcher 'bud' (?) but it does nothing.  No elongation or swelling.  I did have a look at an older one and it was not dried out and still seemed viable so....???

I'll get that picture up after work so you can see what I mean.

Aaron.
 
  • #12
Interesting point. The albo-tendrils are indeed extremely short, but maybe once the undeveloped pitchers touches something, the tendril might grow a few mm, just enough to wrap around something.
I have been to Penang 10 years ago, I will check if I can find a clue on the pictures of the albo's there, but i doubt it. Probably I just focused on the nice red pitchers
smile_m_32.gif


Update:
Found a pic. This plant has at least some cm's of tendril, that should be good enough for climbing.
dia_81_small.jpg
 
  • #13
OK,

Here is the Albo when I got it in late Feb this year:
mypic13.JPG


And here it is as at last night:
mypic53.jpg


Anything jump out to you guys about the appearance of this plant other than the lack of pitchers?

You can just make out the undeveloped pitcher buds on the top two horizontal leaves and the developing vertical leaf.

Aaron.
 
  • #14
Wow, that's a big albomarginata. It's strange that it is so green, though, considering you say it gets several hours of direct sun. My plant is much more bronze or olive colored and less shiny than that, and the leaves more rigid. It may just be the form, but i still wonder if it's a light issue. Anyway, this is an interesting discussion. It's nice to have people with locale experience to share some insight.

CAPS: That's beautiful. The consistency of the perfectness of the pitchers for so many 'generations' of leaves is impressive.
 
  • #15
Yes, sorry Caps, forgot to comment on your picture.

Beautiful looking plant.  The leaves look pretty much the same as mine.

OK, long post, lots of thoughts….

The interesting thing with mine is that, although it is clearly a cutting, all of the leaves that were ALREADY on the plant when I got it were tightly packed together (much like Cap's plant).  However, from the second I got the plant it just started vining and as you can see is stretching further and further between each leaf.  So maybe it is my conditions that stimulated it to vine?

D,  several hours of direct sun (depending on the weather - I.e. lots of cloud right now) but though 3mm glass and thin bubble wrap.  Admittedly it is also not in the brightest area of the glasshouse too.

Just a thought... if it is in fact a light issue could the vining be an indication of this?  Many plants will grow long and string in an attempt to reach an area with more light.  Maybe that’s what the Albo is doing and could explain why it appears to have not been vining prior to me getting it?

Plus, D, you mentioned that yours was more "bronze/olive".  If that's not due to the variety I would have though that indicates yours is getting more light exposure, relative to mine say!?  I know that quite a few of my Neps do colour up (red/bronze/etc) in their leaves in the first few weeks I get them and remain that way.  I took that to indicate they were getting higher levels of light than from where they came.  Plants that have done this include N. thorelli (from green to pink/red), N. maxima (green form to some bronzing), N. ventricosa (slight bronzing), etc.

I had another look at the Albo last night and felt the pitcher buds.  They are all very soft and flexible, hopefully indicating that they are still viable.  If they were no good I would have expected them to be hard and dry?

So, I figured no harm could be done and have moved the plant to the highest and brightest area of the glasshouse (not a huge increase in light intensity though as it is FARILY even in the glasshouse) to see if that helps any over the next few weeks.  However, IF it is a light issue then I may have a bit of a wait anyway until the winter is over and the day length starts to increase again.

Aaron.
 
  • #16
Will take a look at my own plants next time I am in the greenhouse.

I agree it could be a light intensity/day length issue. Hard to say on the vining issue. Could be coincidence as the cutting originally looks like it is just starting to hit the vining phase as the internodes appear to be spreading apart when you got it. The current leaf spacing is what I would expect for a vining N. albomarginata. While many Nepenthes will show some leaf color under bright light but not all.. Unfortunately N. albomarginata may or may not depending on the particular plant. If the rest of your plants appear to have colored up from nice bright light then I have no reason to believe the N. albomarginata is not receiving sufficient light also.

I think your just going to have to wait it out until warmer brighter longer days return.

Tony

(note on the observation about newly acquired plants changing color)
Many nurseries grow their plants soft.. ie lower light, higher moisture, heavy feeding. This produces larger plants quicker. With Nepenthes however this is of little value except for them to list nice big plants on their pricelist. Some nurseries are better than others. Properly grown plants will experience little setback and adjustment period while those pushed into large soft growth can experience a very nasty longterm adjustment period.
 
  • #17
Aaron,

I see four leafs on the vining stem. You can count the lower two to the transport / adaption shock, they might not develop pitchers at all. For the upper two-and-a-half leafs there is still hope. The pitchers need quite a bit of time to develop. Try measuring the buds every day, maybe you can see an increase.
To add one more theory
smile.gif
Maybe the vining is indeed a physiological reaction to the transport shock (also I haven't found this in literature yet), like you find a sudden flowering for some Neps after cuttings are taken. Speaking of 'shock': It sounds like you are in the temperate climate. Isn't February very cold month to aquire a Nep? Maybe this stress (be it just from your car to the house) 'switched' your Nep into vining mode? Then again, maybe it is just a cooincidence.
Light might be also the factor, if I was a plant, I would also grow taller to receive more light.
smile.gif
How short are your days in winter? Then: if it was, wouldn't it be a well known fact to growers?

btw, my albo leafs are also green and so is the one of the Penang-picture above.

Volker
 
  • #18
OK, another VERYYYYYY long post by me!

Tony,
[b said:
Quote[/b] ] Hard to say on the vining issue.  Could be coincidence as the cutting originally looks like it is just starting to hit the vining phase as the internodes appear to be spreading apart when you got it.
No Neps generally just so seeming instant from non-vining to vining.  In the case of this plant at least it seems like such a quick change.

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]I think your just going to have to wait it out until warmer brighter longer days return.
I concede, at this point, that that is about my only option.

[b said:
Quote[/b] ](note on the observation about newly acquired plants changing color)
Many nurseries grow their plants soft.. ie lower light, higher moisture, heavy feeding.  This produces larger plants quicker.  With Nepenthes however this is of little value except for them to list nice big plants on their pricelist.  Some nurseries are better than others.  Properly grown plants will experience little setback and adjustment period while those pushed into large soft growth can experience a very nasty longterm adjustment period.
I have been led to believe this is the case with a/some local growers but I do not know about the supplier of this plant.  Admittedly it does not bother me much as I have been VERY impressed with the size of some plants I received recently.  However, I have noted that they do seem more prone to an initial shock response.


Volker,
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]I see four leafs on the vining stem.
Yes 4 fully developed and 2 new forming (you can just make them out as one is opening/unfurling and the other is just a 10cm long spear).

All of the leaves on the vine section have developed since in my care though as Tony noted, the growing tip does appear to be vining already in the earlier picture.

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Try measuring the buds every day, maybe you can see an increase.
'm not actually measuring (I do check every plant and every undeveloped pitcher morning and night, on my way out and back from work) but is does appear that the newer leaves have a slightly longer tendril.  Though, it is hard to tell as the leaf unfurls from base to tip and it is the pitcher end that widens last, revealing what the pitchers will do.  The pitcher buds do not appear to be swelling but they do seem viable and alive, as mentioned earlier.  Plus each new leaf SEEMS to have a slightly better developed pitcher bud.

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]It sounds like you are in the temperate climate.  Isn't February very cold month to aquire a Nep?
Temperate to cool climate but with HOT summers.  Winters rarely go below 0C (current lowest this year is about 3C at my place but the average is still around 10C) and summers average say about low-mid 30C with occasional high days in low 40C.

Note that my glasshouse is AROUND 15C night and 25-30C day, as mentioned in more detail earlier..

We are Southern hemisphere so February is mid/late summer with long days and hot weather.  In fact at that time of year I am still combating heat and trying to get the nightly temps down to suit the highlands/intermediates.

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]How short are your days in winter? Then: if it was, wouldn't it be a well known fact to growers?
As at today sun-rise 7:20am and sun-set say 5:12pm so day length is 10 hours.  However, I am getting about 6 hours of direct sun on the glasshouse at best.  We are 3.5 weeks from he shortest day of the year so I would expect that timeframe not to go below 5.5 hours at worst.

As for the " well known fact"  I don’t know.  I'm pretty new back into CP's and am going through my first set of seasons with the glasshouse.  I can't compare to other growers as I have not caught up with many form the local society yet, but I can compare to the other Neps (25-30 specimens so far) I have in my collection.  I have mostly highland/intermediates with a few lowlands (Raffs, Truncata’s, Amp, etc).  All other Neps are still pitchering other than an N. ampullaria (which is another issue).

I know that speaking to a few other local Nep growers they seem to have trouble with lowland plants in general, though I believe I am the only one that is heating their glasshouse.

Given all of the great options and feedback that has been provided here I don’t know if there is really much I can do other than hold off, be patient and see what happens.  As I said, the pitcher buds (newest 3-4) seem still viable.

Thanks,

Aaron.
 
  • #19
Hi Aaron,

from my experience N. albomarginata needs some time to establish to new conditions. I had a plant few years back which initially also refused to pitcher. After some months pitcher production resumed and the plant produced a pitcher on every leaf. Under my intermediate to highland conditions N. albomarginata was very slow growing, so I am surprised by the growth rate of your plant.

Some additional artificial light might help your Nepenthes to grow better during winter. A total of 12 hours of light should be fine.

Cheers Joachim
 
  • #20
Thanks Joachim,

Unfortunatley, I am currently running almost 1,500W (not including pumps and heaters) of lighting over my marine reef tanks (another 600W of lights coming online with a new tank soon) so in order to keep my electricity bill from becoming even bigger I'll just have to tollerate the slower growth until the winter ends and day length increases.

Aaron.
 
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