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Oh no!

I lost my second N. burbidgeae x edwardsiana today
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The first died shortly after getting it. But this had appeared to settle in and even produced 4 pitchers in a row. But the last few days the pitchers died quickly and the leaves had the dreaded yellow/brown look. After cutting it up today even the growing tip has a trace of brown running through it so thats that...

I have a third so my fingers are crossed for that. Whats disappointing is both plants were producing quite different pitchers so I was looking forward to comparing them as they matured. Now I will never know
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Depressed....

bill
 
Hi Bill,

I can feel with you - if it helps, I lost my big N. hamata, a small N. macrophylla, a small N. rajah and a N. densiflora this summer (mostly due to heat stress and mites)

Best luck with your remaing plant!

Joachim
 
Thats bad Joachim..
Neps can be growing smoothly one moment & gone the next
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bill
 
So sorry to hear that! Hopefully your remaining plant will....well.....remain.
 
Sounds very much to me like an infection coming up from the roots such as Phythium or Phytopthora. If so, then your other plants may be in jeopardy unless those plants were infected when you got them and there has been no cross-contamination since.

Have you ever considered using a Trichoderma spp. in your potting media?
 
Trichoderma...?
Rob, would you mind expanding on that a bit? Could you please tell us what that is, how to use it, and perhaps suggest a brand?
Thank you Sir,
Robin
 
that really stinks, luckilly my hamata is coming back nicely from getting tipped over by colorado winds
 
Robin,

Trichoderma is a bacteria that has been developed to protect roots by keeping fungal pathogens away (it eats them!). You can find out quite a bit about it by doing an internet search. There are many different strains of Trichoderma. The one we use is particularly effective against the root rot pathogen Pythium but others are effective against other pathogens.

Basically, it's a white powder and you add about a teaspoonful to 10l of potting media and mix it in. Alternatively, mix it with water and drench the roots with it. It breeds in the potting media and colonises the outside of the roots where it feeds on fungal organisms that might otherwise attack the plant by entering through the roots. It's completely harmless to Nepenthes unless you get a lot of it into the pitchers.

Bill's description of his plant sounds very much like a root rot problem which may have been prevented by using Trichoderma. However, once a plant is infected with something like Pythium, it cannot be cured, only suppressed with treatments of certain fungicides such as 'Aliette' which is Aluminum tris (O-ethyl phosphonate) or alternatively Propamocarb. Some producers perhaps use these fungicides routinely which keeps the symptoms away but when the customer gets the plant and the fungicide is no longer applied, the pathogen takes over and kills the plant.

Root rot fungi are water-borne and can actually swim from one pot to another if the pots are touching or along a water soaked bench. Nasty things!
 
  • #10
Hi Rob:

Sorry for the correction, Trichoderma is a fungus spp. that devours bad fungus ie, pythium and phytophtora. it is still used as a preventative measure rather than a fungicide. If your plant is infected, trichoderma is useless, but if your plant is healthy, then trichoderma will keep it healthy by creating a shield with these hungry good fungi
If you use fungicide ie, mancozeb, chipco spin, fongarid, zyban, the trichoderma will be killed too, so it is best to reinoculate with trichoderma to create the protective barrier
around the roots.

Furthermore, there are some type of bacteria such as Bacillus subtilis AND Pantoea, Exiguobacterium,  microbacteria - all three of which contribute to the suppression of Rhizoctonia root rot.

Gus
 
  • #11
Thanks Gus, I don't know why I put bacteria, I know it's a fungus.   Guess it was a bit early in the morning!

We have our media tested regularly to ensure the Trichoderma is there and active.  Drenching with any fungicide we have used kills it stone dead but spraying or misting the plants usually just suppresses it, it comes back.

I believe the pH of the media is also quite crucial to healthy Trichoderma colonies.

P.S. Have finally sorted out some T-shirts!
 
  • #13
I have used trichoderma spp. as reffered by Gus and it is quite helpful as a preventative measure. How does one know if a plant is already infected and if they use this fungi how will they know that it is not helping the plant? I purchased three kilos and didn't use much, the rest is in the fridge. hehe. One thing I would like to know is wether there is a liquid solution of trichoderma spp. that can be added to existing neps in pots without having to repot the whole plant in new media. In addition when refferring to inoculating the media with the powder form of spp. Can you make up a solution of this and pour it on top of the soil of existing plants with the same effect?

C
Gus,
 
  • #14
Hi Christian:

I do use a solution of trichoderma on the potted plants and i have not had a root rot for past 3 1/2 years. So i do believe it is effective on potted plants.

Gus
 
  • #15
I have used trichoderma for the first time this year but only on my Sarr. So must try it on my Neps as well. Does the powder have a shelf life, as there is no indication of date on tub? Also someone said it needed to be stored in the fridge, is that correct?

This second N. burbidgeae x edwardsiana had actually looked awful soon after getting it. With brown rotten growth and I was convinced it was a goner. Instead a much healthier one died instead! This one them grew 7 new leaves in quick succession before dieing last week. So guess this original diease might have been lurking in it. >;-D

In the UK there are no decent fungicides now available- they have all been withdrawn!!

cheers

bill
 
  • #16
Thanks very much Rob,
Boy, the more I learn, the more I realize I don't know. heheh. I feel like a beginner here.
I really like the sounds of that as a preventative measure. I'll see what I can find on the web about Trichoderma.

I have to say it really is great that we have professionals here that are willing to share they're knowledge so freely. I have gained so much valuable information in just the last few months of participating here on the forums. Thanks to all of you!  
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Robin

Oh, what ph do the Trichoderma prefer?
 
  • #17
Interesting exchange.

I used to drench my Neps with a commercial strain of Trichoderma harzianum (RootShield) every three months or so, following *good* results with it on my Cephs. I was never quite convinced that I was getting improved protection with it, given the inevitable conflict that one faces when using systemic fungicides on plants in pots innoculated with Trichoderma. Certainly, I never saw any negative response from the plants so, at worst, I s'pose it's harmless (this is NOT an endorsement!). I agree with Robert Cantley that foliar sprays of contact fungicides probably suppress, but don't eradicate, the in-pot cultures. Lab tests on the media will show what chemical products put it down, and which don't. It is inexpensive enough that, presuming one believes in its efficacy, it pays to re-innoculate the pots every couple of months.

I'd be very interested in seeing results published on its use in commercial Nepenthes nurseries, including comparisons with sizeable control lots. My own experience aside, I suspect that it may be a valuable addition to our root pathogen control arsenal, with the added benefit that it's a "bio-rational". Having said that, I'm also leery of the wilder claims by the marketers of some of these products given the inconclusive evidence on the putative benefits of using, say, SuperJive.

Brgds,

SJ
 
  • #18
Actually it is very interesting to understand the interactions between microorganisms (bacteria, fungi, and even viruses) with the plant's roots.
Mycorrhizal microorganisms are usually beneficial for the normal development of a plant. Sometimes the roots of a plant are not so lucky and have microbes that are neither good nor bad taking up space and avoiding the potential good microbes to colonize the roots, so if we follow this logic then, using a regular fungicide in a plant prior using trichoderma would be an excellent idea because the chemical will kill any fungus, then remove the chemical as much as you can and then add the trichoderma so they can take up the surface area left vacant by the useless or potentially harmful microbes and voilaa, your plant is protected.

I do believe that in the cases where trichoderma does not do much is because the roots have the useless microbes and these won't let trichoderma interact with the roots.

The expiration date for trichoderma is about a year, but it is not that expensive, at least in our part of the world.

Gus
 
  • #19
Expensive is a realative term.  I definitely think it's worthwhile to use Trichoderma on a small collection as the cost would be low.  In our highland nurseries alone we use between 7 Kg and 10 Kg per month which is a bit of an "ouch" on the bank balance.  It's manufactured locally by a Norwegian company and is a mixture of two strains.  They won't reveal excatly which strains though.

Usually, before using a chemical, we carry out extensive trials to test for phytotoxicity and other effects.  However, with Trichoderma we just started using it as we were sure there would be no ill effects and it's not a chemical.  Since using it we *believe* we've seen improved growth and definitely no occurance of root rot pathogens which used to be an occasional problem before.  However, this is a subjective evaluation since we're always tweaking other parameters such as watering schedules and even water source changes at different times of the year.   Problem is that now we're using it we don't dare stop!  I'll set up some serious trials when I'm up in the highland nurseries week after next and post photos of the results periodically.  I'm personally fairly sure that Trichoderma (at least the strain we use) is highly beneficial.

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 I think comparing Trichoderma to Superthrive isn't fair.  Trichoderma has at least a scientific foundation to explain how and why it *may* be of benefit to the plants and has been scientifically evaluated with many ornamental and other plant crops.  I've never seen any such data for Superthrive.   Oops, sorry! Let's not start another Superthrive debate  
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We keep our Trichoderma in the fridge by the way.

Trichoderma thrives well at a pH of between 5.5 and 6.0.  I know this because that's the pH we strive to keep our media at.  Outside that range I have no experience other than what the manfufacturer has told me.  He says that it doesn't do well in alkaline conditions which I guess shouldn't be relevant information to the CP world!  
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  He also says it will be OK at lower pH than we use.
 
  • #20
I have been using 4 different Trichoderma, 6 Glomus, 1 Gigaspora, Pisolithus, 4 Rhizopogon and 2 Baccillus. I also have begun experimenting with beneficial nematodes and protozoa. Beneficial nematodes help breakdown junk into useable forms and keep harmful nematodes at bay through competition for food. These I have nothing to say yet.
The fungus and bacteria innoculations are extremely beneficial. It is my beleif that this is more than an opinion though studies are still limited on microbiology of rainforestfloors and crown humus. Additionally epiphytic and climbing/tree hugging Neps would be in contact with a different set of microbes that would benefit specific arboreal plant life and be neutral to terrestrial forms.

Anyway, Yes, deffinitely a difference seen when using natural organisms in your soil instead of chemicals. For 1 there are no harmful effects from a beneficial (symbiotic) organism. 2) They will make more nutrient available to the plant in a more readily available form. Neps do use from the soil, the soil is just very defficient so when litter hits the ground it is quickly broken down and used as fast as possible by the nearest plant.

Joe
 
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