N. maxima - new guinea?

[Joachim Danz]

Hi,

this is a Nepenthes I obtained as N. maxima from New Guinea few years ago. The plant is growing slowly and has reached a size where identification might be possible - I doubt it being a N. maxima, although I trust my source that the location is correct.

Any ideas what this could be?

Joachim

 

[SydneyNeps]

Joachim,

I agree with you that it's definitely not maxima, it lacks both the glandular bos, and the protruberence at the tip of the lid. As for what it actually is, hmmmmm.....

Hamish

 

[Stanhopea]

It definetly isn't a maxima. In addition to what SydneyNeps said, the tendrils don't seem hairy enough and my maxima grows at what I consider medium speed. This is all based on my experiences with maxima, though. As to what it is, it looks somewhat N. gymnamphora-ish, though as far as I know, that doesn't grow in New Guinea.

 

[nepenthes gracilis]

Hi Joachim is this a seed grown or TC plant? If its seed grown, perhaps you could narrow it down to the hybrids possible in its locale data. If its TC, then perhaps ask your source if they could tell you where the material was collected to further refine your efforts at identification.

Just a thought

 

[Tony Paroubek]

Just from experience growing many different N. maxima from young TC plants. It takes a long time for this species to show itself. The plants need to be a large size and of fairly significant age. Size alone will not bring out the fully mature characteristics of N. maxima.

The plant pictured does have some young N. maxima characteristics. Whether it is pure N. maxima or not is hard to say. It could be possible that it is just a different form from what is typicallly cultivated so doesn't fit all the more common characteristics. I would have to look for certain but I do believe that many of the plants we see in cultivation originate more from the Sulawesi area instead of New Guinea.

Tony

 

[Trent]

Hi Everyone,
While reviewing this, Michelle immediately noticed a similarity to a plant we have in our collection- but it's hardly a maxima from New Guinea. Here's a photo of the hybrid...

Does this look similar? Before we tell you what our hyrbid is, are there any guesses?

 

[Trent]

The photo above is an older trap. Here is a photo of the latest to open, still not yet fully colored and hardened. Notice the difference on the lid angles.

We're not saying this is Joachim's plant, but Michelle thinks they look very similar - even the leaves and growth habit....

 

[Tony Paroubek]

Looks like N. bicalcarata x maxima.

Joachim are there little projections at the top of the peristome near the lid??  Looks like there might be on the side shot but a little unclear.  Trent's hybrid certainly has them.  The leaves would also fit for a N. bicalcarata hybrid.

Tony

Edit: Michelle has good eyes hehe

 

[Joachim Danz]

Hi,

many thanks to all for your answers. Especially the plant of Michelle and Trent looks very similar. I got this plant in september 2002 from Thomas Alt who visited the natural habitats quite often. I don't know where he got the seed for this plant from. Here are some detail of the peristome Tony was asking for:

Joachim

 

[Tony Paroubek]

Huh interesting Joachim. I don't know if I would consider those little teeth sticking out as originating from N. bicalcarata. Usually when N. bicalcarata is in a hybrid the peristome elongates and projects foward right where the 2 teeth would have been but they are more fused and it is a gradual progression outward. Those appear fairly distinct.

Perhaps there was just a mix up with labels or something, since I would think if it is such a hybrid that it would not be something found in New Guinea!

I will try and have a close look at my N. maxima from various locations and various ages, as well as some N. bicalcarata hybrids if they have pitchers.

Tony

 

[Trent]

First, Tony, you’re right on with bical.  The hybrid we showed before is N. bicalcarata x rafflesiana.  
Tony wrote “Usually when N. bicalcarata is in a hybrid the peristome elongates and projects foward right where the 2 teeth would have been but they are more fused and it is a gradual progression outward.  Those appear fairly distinct.”

Not always.  We see variation from plant to plant within the same grex.  Here is a seedling of N. bical –red x (spectabilis x northiana).  The fangs are almost not visible.  

Where as the siblings of the same cross show differing degrees of “fangs” -these are also N. bical –red x (spectabilis x northiana).    

 

 

Then, for a primary hybrid, the photo below is a close up of one of our N. bical-red x northiana with two “fangs” trying to appear.  

Sometimes the “fangs” on these hybrids do fuse and remind me of the upper neck part of the peristome on N. rafflesiana.  The mother plant or pod parent of the hybrids shown above is N. bicalcarata.  On Joachim’s plant, there is definitely something on the top of the peristome.  Could it be a mislabeled bical hybrid?  May be the N. bicalcarata is the father or pollen parent or even a grandparent - though the leaves look like very much like bical.  From our own trials, it is very easy to have labels mixed up.  We’ve never seen a maxima with any fangs.

 

[Tony Paroubek]

While I agree that there will be different degrees of fang showing in a hybrid. Joachims plant looks more like the peristome has been turned out at the top so that the teeth are just project foward at that point. There are other teeth below the uppermost that are not quite so turned out and not projecting foward as much. Each tooth is fairly distinct though and not significantly larger than the it's neighbor, which you would get with N. bicalcarata in there. I agree the leaf and growth habit sure looks N. bicalcarata-ish. Joachim sure needs to chat with the originator. Maybe he has other plants in his collection and can recognize it quickly.

Tony