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N. papuana?

Hi Everyone,
Here's a good one for ya!  I obtained a plant of New Guinea mirabilis from Bruce Bednar many years ago.  He claims to have gotten it from a missionary who collected it in western New Guinea.  The missionary was able to import it to the US, and thought he discovered a new species.  When Bruce saw the plant, he identified it as mirabilis.  Photo below.    
While looking through B. H. Danser's "The Nepenthaceae of the Netherlands Indies" 1926, we noticed his description and botanical illustration of N. papuana.  It grows in western New Guinea.  Here is Danser's illustration of N. papuana and photos of our New Guinea mirablis.
N.%20papuana%20New%20Guinea%20-Danser%20ill..JPG
 
N.%20mirabilis%20New%20Guinea%20vine%20with%20Trent%201-8-05.JPG

Here are some upper and lower pitcher portraits.
N.%20mirabilis%20New%20Guinea%20purple%20upper%209-26-04.JPG
N.%20mirabilis%20New%20Guinea%20purple%20lower%209-26-04.JPG
 

Hope posting the photo of the page from Danser's book isn't a problem.  If it is, please edit it out of our post.  We can email the picture to those interested.
Note the leaf structure and growth habit of the plant pictured is the same as the illustration.   Same thing -what do you think?
 
Nice plant!!!!!!! Looks the same to me:)

Is it for sale anywhere on the web?
smile.gif
 
Yes that is very nice
Bye for now Julian
 
According to Flora Malesiana Vol. 15 N. mirabilis is often confused with N. papuana but differs only slightly by an orbicular lid and more leathery leaves than mirabilis. Also, upper pitchers having wings and sometimes they're finged.  The petiole of N. papuana is said not sheath the stem.
Sizes: the lower pitchers "not exceeding"  3-6 cm x 2-3 cm  (their wild plant/museum specimen measurements have been off on several of my own plants), uppers 12-15 cm x 3 cm and the leaf blades of N. papuana juveniles are not fimbrate as are the leaves of seedling N. mirabilis.

This is all according to Jebb & Cheek. Wistuba had the "Doorman's Top #2" listed as possibly N. papuana but it doesn't fit the description because I would assume that there would be a mention that it was completely villose and color changing like this "N. Sp. Doorman's Top#2  "N. papuana"" from wistuba:

Dry:
doormanstop8.jpg


Wet:
doormanstop4.jpg

doormanstop5.jpg

doormanstop7.jpg



Teeth:
doormanstop6.jpg
 
Another intriguing question. I haven't done alot of looking into the records on this plant. Phill Mann has a picture on his website of what he calls N. papuana. The leaves however appear a different shape than the Danser sketch. Of course it's also possible that pictured plant is not correctly identified either. Or that Danser sketched a N. mirabilis and called it N. papuana! Some interesting information on Joachim Nerz's website which I feel is accurate. None mention any teeth on leaf margins. If the plant you got from Bruce does show teeth on the leaf edges then it would have to be N. mirabilis which I don't believe is the same as N. papuana. So the question is why does Bruce think the plant he received is a N. mirabilis?
Tony
 
Very interesting Josh! Danser describes papuana living at 30 meters and found across low hills. Doorman's Top #2 is extreme highland isn't it? Also, Danser writes that N. papuana is ciliate, not leathery. We looked at our New Guinea mirabilis leaves for quite some time last night and could not find any fine hairs at all. The leaves look glabrous and leathery, but are fimbriate when immature (like mirabilis). We think we have another form of mirabilis, but then what is N.papuana from 30 meters? (don't say neoguinensis, because it doesn't look like it in any way, shape, or form). You are right Josh, the lid is wrong according to Danser's drawing and description. Funny, the lid on that New Guinea mirabilis has been orbicular before, and is very variable in shape and angle.
 
Tony,
When Bruce gave the id for this plant, there wasn't a ton of info available on New Guinea neps- besides the fact that it looks like a mirabilis. The petiole is identical to Danser's drawing, but may be you're right, he just pictured another mirabilis. We have a feeling there's more to be learned about New Guinea neps. We'll check out the websites you mentioned - thanks!
 
Deffinately needs to be more research into this region!  If the leaf margins are fimbriate occasionally as you mention then Bruce would be correct to identify it as N. mirabilis.  

Assuming the photos Joachim Nerz has are correct, the difference I note is in the lower portion of the upper pitchers.  Appears like there are still some wings on the upper pitchers that wrap around the bottom of the pitcher all the way to the tendril reminescent of N. neoguinensis in a sort of way.  I don't really see that in your plant Trent, which appears to have no wings on the upper pitchers.

Guess I will have to break out some books and read some descriptions...
Tony

edit: Missed a comma! Also if anyone is wondering, BobZ has links to these sites in the Nepenthes species section.
 
After looking at BobZ's links to photos of N. papuana, we are even more confused! He has three links. None look like Danser's illustration (nor the same species in the 3 different photos).
 
  • #10
Just a few more weird bits from Jebb & cheek:
N. mirabilis up to 200M and rarely 1000m  but up to 1500m in New Guinea

N. papuana: 250 m - 900 m
"might be confused with N. neoguineensis which it is possibly closely related, differing from N. neogineensis' paniculate inflorescence and upper pitcher wings that are broadest at the base."
 
  • #11
Thanks, Josh. That is interesting. Also, ampullaria is found over 1000 meters in altitude in New Guinea. Maybe there's a highland form and lowland form of papuana, or it has a higher altitudinal range on the high end of the range than originally thought.
 
  • #12
I wonder if the "highland" forms of these new guinea species will actually grow well as intermediate/highlanders? If not then I wonder if location of the island has some sort of bearing on lowland plants appearing above 1000m in New Guinea only?
Are the hills of New Guinea warmer at higher altitudes than other montane climates of similar Nep inhabited islands? Perhaps 1000m in New Guinea is much warmer than Borneo or Sumatra? If I recall doesn't New Guinea have the equator running straight through it whereas Borneo & Sumatra are just a few degrees north?
Perhaps this would explain it? If my geographys wrong, my excuse is I can't find my atlas...???
 
  • #13
The New Guinea Highlands are no more warmer or cooler than highland elsewhere in the tropics as far as I know. Personally, I am sceptical about reports that ampullaria is found above 1,000 metres in New Guinea, I'd be glad to hear of any reliable first hand accounts of anyone who has seen it at that altitude.

There needs to be a heap of work done on New Guinea Nepenthes. Like Nepenthes scholarship general in the past, so much of it is poor. Even Danser made some clangers. The problem with New Guinea is that both Irian Jaya and Papua New Guinea are not safe places to travel. Irian Jaya has issues with the Indonesian military fighting a war against the separatist movement of the indigenous papuans, and PNG is generally lawless. It is not an area that has been well explored by Nepenthes botanists.

Trent, I wouldn't dare say without physically seeing it, but I would dare say your plant is a form of mirabilis, which is quite common in PNG. When it flowers, it should be more helpful in identifying it.

Hamish
 
  • #14
Thanks Hamish. I had no reason to doubt it was a mirabilis until I happened upon the picture of N. papuana in Danser's book. I think Tony is correct in that the illustration is of a mirabilis and is erroneously labelled papuana. It is one of my favorite forms of mirabilis-it's quite striking.
Perusing Danser brought up a ton of unanswered questions.
 
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