What's new
TerraForums Venus Flytrap, Nepenthes, Drosera and more talk

Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Sharing with all cp's

  • Thread starter rbjong
  • Start date
  • #21
slight variation in color and physical appearance.The previous is brownish red,the later yellowish spotted red.Natural hybridisation,maybe.I will made another trip to find out.Both are in the same locality.:laugh:
 
  • #22
That one definitely looks like gracilis x northiana.
Troy, one that previous plant, do you think the leaves look too broad for a pure gracilis?-- Which is why I suggested the (gracilis x (gracilis x northiana)) I would certainly defer to your opinion on it, knowing you have probably seen thousands of individual gracilis plants in habitat.
 
  • #23
I have another photo taken in the same location(Bau Limestone Hills)the place where our big brother(N.northiana)live:D .Does it look like the previous
two?I can see slight differences-small,slender but the peristome show same feature.

gxnth1.jpg
 
  • #24
Michael, I don't think that's always the case. Whilst northiana hybrids often have a more flared peristome, it does depend on the species with which it hybridises. For example, N. x cincta, a natural hybrid between northiana and albomarginata, is almost indistinguishable from albomarginata, such is albomarginata's peristome's genetic dominance. It is a great "quasher" of peristomes of species with which it is hybridised. I've seen other albomarginata hybrids which have completely quashed a showy peristome of the other parent. I don't know about gracilis, but it could be a similar thing.

Hamish
 
  • #25
Hamish..since  N.albomarginata was mentioned i have a photo of it below. What is your view and from your experience.I have shown it around and search from books but non that they came across like this one(esp the speckles).Again Photo shot in northiana's territory -Bau limestone hill(Gold mountain the local called it).

albo.jpg
 

...the forest...my garden..
smilie4.gif
 
  • #26
The photo is a bit small so it's hard to see, and even with pictures of the whole plant, gee, I could only make an educated guess. Seeing it in the wild helps, as you can tell whether it's the only one of its kind in the area (which would lean towards it being a hybrid), and what else is growing nearby. That can give you a lot of clues. Personally, I don't think it's a hybrid with northiana. The colouring is reminiscent of fusca.

The other big issue is the problem with defining what is a species, and that is something that can set taxonomists into a blood fued. The plant in your picture could be a variant of albomarginata. Albomarginata has a fair bit of variation in its range. It may have some hybrid past, but if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck...

I doubt that many species are very "pure". Some species grow in very close proximity to each other, and I'm sure some of the traits that are considered part of that species have been borrowed from another species and become dominant for genetic and environmental reasons in that population. This sort of discussion happens often amongst sarraceniaphiles.  I'd put money that certain traits in both *pure* rafflesiana and ampullaria are in fact originally from the other species through introgressed x hookeriana.

It's a fascinating topic that could be discussed for days
smile_m_32.gif
 
  • #27
Indeed.Thank you for the feed back,am learning lots here.:D
 
  • #28
Hamish, gracilis is fairly dominant. Our natural hybrid of gracilis x bicalcarata looks much more like a gracilis than a bical. We have never observed Nepenthes in their native habitat, but have observed Sarracenia, where natural hybrids show all kinds of gradations between and among species.
Robert, I think you are photographing natural hybrids of gracilis x northiana. Keep taking those pictures!
 
  • #29
That last photo is very strange. Never seen markings on albomarginata look like that. Very unique. It may be a natural hybrid, but with what?
Also, Robert, have you seen the northiana bearing fruit?
 
  • #30
Trent there are 2 local photographers here who only take and study nepenthes and they have the same doubt.They never come across such color and speckles.This is the only plant in the area(in northiana territory limestone hills).Other neps nearby are mirabilis,ampullaria(green) and northiana.

Yes,i often come across northiana in flowering and also those with seed pods that has exploded,some fine hair like seeds still stick to the pods.Hope this help:)

Hamish i post another close up of the supposely albomarginata x for clearer view.Hope this help
smile.gif



albomx11.jpg



..the forest ...my garden..
smile.gif
 
  • #31
If it's the only albo of its type in the area, then the odds are high it's a hybrid. The most likely candidate would be northiana, it simply doesn't have the sort of characteristics you'd expect from either mirabilis or ampullaria. It could have complex hybrid origins, although obviously complex hybrids are uncommon in habitat. A bit of a quandry....
 
  • #32
Whatever it is, it's a pretty good looking pitcher!

Capslock
 
  • #33
i refered to neps book it said the only known hybrid with northiana is albomarginata. well what agree with caps it is nice looking:D
 
  • #34
This morning i visited the Sarawak Timber and Research Centre to have an appointment with the head of Dept.and was pleasantly surprise to also met Mr Chien Lee (happened to be there and was introduce to me.This was my first time to meet him, am glad to have).

Mr Lee helped to identify some of the neps,including those i posted.
smile_k_ani_32.gif
he must have combed all over the Bau hills and saw the same pitchers. It is confirmed and it is gracilis x northiana. There is a name for it i.e N.bauensis.
smile.gif


The last photo is pure N.albomarginata.

No more doubt.

...the Forest ..my garden...
smile_m_32.gif
 
  • #35
Am posting some images,hopfully it helps to answer some queries.

The limestone hills are hardly 500 metres in height,some have submerge water barely knee deep.Temperature day and night fluctuate between 22 celcius to 28 celcius. Mountains and hills at night are shrouded in heavy mist,and Bau hills are no exception. Because of the sun elevation different part of the hills receive sunlight at different time of the day.Trees are very sparse,thin and short.The limestones are rough and very loose,some are razor sharp.

Bau Hills in the backgroung,shrouded in morning mist..7.00am
Baulake12.jpg



...all clear by around 8am...taken from another angle.Note the limestone ourcrops and submerge pools..
Baulake.jpg


note the sloping limestone...young northiana taking root in open space...no shade.
youngplantlowernorthianaalt.jpg


..lower northiana.Notice the base of plant...loose decay leaves and collection of sediments..sparse vegetation.....parts of roots are exposed.Roots penetrated deep into limestone..
1.jpg


...wherever possible northiana(aerial) "climb" .Colors can vary too ( as compare to the earlier post )
2.jpg


Hope these help...Robert
 
  • #36
!!!!
smile_k_ani_32.gif

I want to be there! Looks amazing, never seen so many wonderful Northiana pics all at one go!
MAy I ask 1 question, do you visit these sites as a tourist or as ... ... as in photography is your hobby or are you studying these plants. I think I am rather ignorant, but some of these places are protected and inaccesible to public arent they? Or is that only for rajah?
After seeing all these wonderful pics you have posted, I really want to go to Sarawak too!
thanks for wonderful photos!
 
  • #37
I came here to practise photography.Am studying pitchers for a purpose.The place is a protected private property.Travel agents possess permission to visit the area. However N.northiana are also found in adjoining areas.Northiana can also be seen hanging on cliff surfaces containing the Fairy Cave.:) Thanks for the response,Lam.
 
  • #38
Hi Robert
smile.gif


I wanted to offer a belated welcome to the forums. I saw where you posted your photo in the Picture Thread. Thank you...very nice photo!
smile.gif


Also...thanks for this very interesting topic and wonderful photos. It is a real treat since most of us will never have the opportunity to see such amazing things in person. All your photos are just beautiful. I really enjoy the ones that show the habitat...the mountains and pools.

Thank you for sharing your photos and knowledge. I hope you continue to do so!
smile.gif
I'm envious of what you get to see in person!
 
  • #39
Thanks,Suzanne,for the reponse. I hope with the posting we are more aware of the various nepenthes in their natural habitats.Because all neps here are protected plants and there is not much of a discussion among the public,except for Nature Society,among photographers and just some months ago a forum Held by Mr.Ch'ien Lee.

Some years ago when i came across mirabilis and ampullaria i thought these plants are common in every corner of the earth:O .My perception changed when i saw in the local papers a local resident was fined for collecting (digging up whole plant) and selling lowland neps.(Tissue Culture exempted,that is what i learnt).

It is great to be in this forum,with many members from different cultural and racial backgroumd having the same interest,to discuss,learn and exchange the methods of growing and thereby promote conservation:D
 
  • #40
deleting double posting..sorry
 
Back
Top