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N. x burbidgeae x edwardsiana

Hello,

I have been growing N. x burbidgeae x edwardsiana for a while now and just wanted to see what other peoples thoughts are about it.

Mine seem to be a slower growing Nepenthes, it's newest pitcher is just at 4 inches with a 6 1/2 inch tendril and 3 3/4 inch leaf. I will try and post a photo of the plant later this week.

I think it is turning into one of the neatest looking hybrids I have seen.

It is a seed grown plant right?

thanks
-Jeremiah-
 
Jeremiah,

That particular hybrid is a tissue culture clone from a single individual. It was collected from a female burbidgeae for burbidgeae TC, but this one turned out to be a hybrid with edwardsiana. Accordingly, all plants in cultivation are the same.

Hamish
 
I find it to be an exciting hybrid!  N. burbidgeae x edwardsiana grows well for me in partial full sun.  It receives full direct rays from sunrose/morning to about 1-2pm and is shaded just before the heat of the day shines down on them.  Many plants have a pitchers developing.  Its interesting to note if they all did came from the same clone, why each of my individual plants are so variable in pitcher shape, coloration and even size.  Here is a shot of a larger plant with good size pitchers (for a small plant).
This is a top view of a plant in a five gallon pot.  
md_40829_p557837.jpg


A close up of a pitcher from the same plant.
Nepenthes_3_031.jpg


Michael
 
Michael,

My information from Malesiana is that this was a freak, one-off individual that popped up in a batch of burbidgeae.

This hybrid does tend to change as it matures, when it's younger the edwardsiana traits are not so strong, they tend to come out more as it ages. I've seen this phenomenon in other hybrids which shift between parental traits as they grow (and occasionally seem to morph a bit due to environmental or other factors).

Hamish
 
I too have noticed differences. I got 3 plants from MT in 2004. All 3 were quite sick on arrival
smile_h_32.gif
One died without growing. Another grew for about 6 months before dieing, the third touch wood is doing well. But the peristrome on the one that grew and them died was far more raised and toothed than the remaing plant. None of the slightly more mature pitchers on this third plant show this effect. Why might this be? As I would not have expected to see much peristrome development did the plant grew bigger anyway.

Still I look forward to seeing more mature pitchers as time goes on.

cheers

bill
 
Perhaps there might be more than one tc clone of this. I am still on the belief that these are different individuals. One has pitchers more elongated, but definitely edwardsiana traits. I will try and photograph them side by side for comparison.

Michael
 
Mine is also slow at growing and making pitchers. Mine suffered mite damaged and stopped growing, but now it is starting to pitcher again. I find that if I move the developing pitcher buds they don't grow and just dry up. The leaves are very stiff, and the tendrils seem to be very long compared to the size of the plant.
 
I have a few plants that are large, but never pitchered and all were from the original MT clone. If there is just one starter clone. I have also noticed that their N. veitchii Bareo is also varied. I have had plants with solid red peristomes and also ones with green variegated with red stripes, and even yellow with red striped peristomes. Plus one of them is variegated with red streaks in their foliage.

The burbidgeae x edwardsiana plants seem all too different to be from one origin. Even EP's clone pictured seemed a lot redder than I have ever seen before on any of mine. Maybe there were more than one clone floating around.

Michael
 
As with many of MT plants, their cultures were started with seed from the wild. They maintain that their plants can have upwards of a dozen different clones in the mix. It is not surprising to see variation with the species they offer.

As for the hybrid in question. I had wondered the same when they first came on the market. Here is some information I received in response to my inquiry as to it's origin and number of clones.

"Referring to your questions below, seed was collected from one N. burbidgeae and the seedlings are now big enough to determine that it is a hybrid N. burbidgeae x edwardsiana. It grows in the same habitat as N. edwardsiana. It is definitely not a N. edwardsiana or a N. macrophylla. It is a single clone."

Tony
 
  • #10
So was only ONE seed propagated for tc? And all the offspring grown up to observe this difference?

I am still to believe that there are more than one seed started tc clone. I will see if all these hidden pitchering is the cross or something else.


M

thanks Tony for checking. But do they (MT) know anything any way? It seems like there are too many arm extensions to really see if any one individual knows what is going on. Also their many new employees and staffing creates doubt that there is anyone who really knows.

M
 
  • #11
Add to that the fact that they're no longer maintaining their Nepenthes arm, and are concentrating on palms, gingers and aroids, it's very difficult to get any meaningful information from them on Neps.
 
  • #12
Unfortunately your correct. The folks that had the knowledge are no longer there. The email I quoted from was May 2003 however. I will see about getting some input from folks that would have more knowledge about this particular plant. The way I understood it, some seed from N. burbidgeae was cultured and a single culture turned out as a natural hybrid.

Tony
 
  • #13
Hi Tony,

Yes, that's right.  From a large batch of seed collected from N. burbidgeae, only a single tissue cultured seedling turned out to be this hybrid.  It was initially sown in 1997, but was slow to propagate at first and then sold as N. burbidgeae (along with other true seedlings) until larger plants developed and it was revealed to be a hybrid.  It's probable parentage was determined by the obvious characteristics of N. edwardsiana and the fact that the two species were growing in near proximity in the wild.

It is interesting to see that growers have noticed so much variation within a single clone.  Whilst somatic mutation during tissue culture division is not impossible, I think it is far more likely that there are many environmental factors that contribute to the appearance of a pitcher as it develops.

Best regards,
Ch'ien
 
  • #14
Hi Ch'ien,

Nice to hear from you. Much appreciated taking the time to stop in and clarify/verify the background on this fantastic plant! It never ceases to amaze me how much plant age, and environmental and cultural factors can alter the morphology on a single clone.

Thanks!
Tony
 
  • #15
Here are a couple of shots of two of my very young plants:

bxe1.jpg


This is the one that survived for 6 months and them died last Oct
confused.gif

Although perhaps difficult to see it did display a really quite pronounced clawed peristrome for such a young plant. It also remained quite yellow despite good direct light.

bxe2.jpg


This is my other plant which I have now had about 18 months now. Although it has produced slightly larger pitchers, none have so far displayed anything like the same clawing on the peristrome. Its ridged but still fairly flat. It has coloured up more as well. Both have been grown in identical conditions, light levels etc.
Its a slow grower but I will be interested to how it develops as it gets bigger.

cheers

bill
 
  • #16
Bill,

Referring to your second photo, this could quite likely be a pure N. burbidgeae that accidentally got mixed in with the hybrid when they were sold. You should be able to verify this when the plant gets larger.

Best regards,
Ch'ien
 
  • #17
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Ch'ien Lee @ Aug. 28 2005,11:56)]Bill,

Referring to your second photo, this could quite likely be a pure N. burbidgeae that accidentally got mixed in with the hybrid when they were sold.  You should be able to verify this when the plant gets larger.

Best regards,
Ch'ien
Oh that would be disappointing if that turns out to be the case
confused.gif
It took me 7 months to wean this remaining one back to health. I wonder whats MT policy is over mixups?
They would only replace the ones that died if I did a further order...

cheers

bill
 
  • #18
This is very interesting thatso much variation has occurred from a single clone. I have seen EP's clone that is very red, and while most of my clones are more speckled, one of them is very deep red-maroon, (I wish it was Alisaputrana) with few speckles.

BTW, has Alisaputrana been collected (again by accident) ever?

Thanks Ch'ien and everyone for sharing their thoughts!

Michael
 
  • #19
I'm not quite so surprised given some of the experiences I've had with Nepenthes hybrids and species putting out different looking pitchers are various stages in their life. Hybrids seem to be particularly prone to this, just look at how much x Dyeriana lowers can morph on the one plant. I doubt we have a full understanding of how much temperatures, day length, micronutrients, potting medium etc have on these plants. With hybrids, you get the extra complexity of two different sets of genes playing themselves out, and different genes may be set off by environmental factors.

As for x Alisaputrana, I am not aware of anyone with it in cultivation, there are only 4 legal clones of rajah in cultivation, although I know of quite a few plants from illegally collected seed. If someone has it, they're most likely to keep quiet about it as they would be admitting to having a plant from illegal seed.

But I have a feeling it will be in culture in the not too distant future. I know of two growers in Australia with flowering rajah. There must be quite a number of mature rajah in cultivation these days. I'm not so sure of burbidgeae, the only flowering sized plants I'm aware of are in Europe, although a couple of the plants I've seen here must be very close to climbing. If we can get hold of a female burbidgeae in flower (both rajah are males), then it should be easy to get seed.

Hamish
 
  • #20
Why not try crossing rajah with truncata? that could be an interesting hybrid, both in color and size..Or maybe a merrilliana?
 
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