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How long to boil?

  • #41
and right now what is taught in biology classes is that there are 6 kingdoms of life- archae, eubacteria, animalia, plantae, protista, and fungi. Algae fall under the protista kingdom because they don't have REAL leaves (with cuticles, layers, etc), no REAL stems, no REAL (nutrient absorbing) roots, etc. and many are unicellular anyway. Not all algae are green plants either... red algae, brown algae, and diatoms aren't green.
yes, plants did evolve from GREEN algae, (did I mention kelp is a brown alga?) but that's the point... they evolved.
Just like protozoans aren't animals, or slime molds fungi, algae aren't plants.
 
  • #42
so... macro algae like kelp and caulerpa (sp? it's been a while) are protizoa?

i thought there were like 10 kingdoms?
 
  • #43
no, Kelp is al alga. It's a brown alga too... so I was saying that since plants evolved from green alga, kelp (which looks probably the most like a plant out of any of the other algae) had a different evolutionary path and therefore shouldn't be classified as a plant.
Protozoans are animal-like protists. (hence the zoans... and I just realized the "proto" (proto-before zoans-animals) is probably there because animals evolved from protozoans... all this time and I hadn't realized that? *bangs head on wall* it's so obvious!)
anyway, protista is like a garbage kingdom. Everything that doesn't fit in the other kingdoms basically goes there :p there are animal-like protists (protozoans), fungus like protists (slime molds), and plant-like protists (algae). They're not really sure where to put them because they have characteristics of other things.. for example there's a green alga (that swims) called euglena that during the day photosynthesizes, and during the night it eats other protists. So it's both an autotroph and a heterotroph (plant? animal?). with slime molds, they have a really complex life cycle. they first start out as amoeba-like single cells, eating bacteria and stuff in the forest floor, and then when it rains or something suddenly all the single cells come together (chemical signals?) and they become this huge (relatively speaking) single thing. In some slime molds, the single cells actually fuse, while in others they just stick together. Then some of those become spores and that's how they reproduce sexualy. (I'm not exactly sure why they're FUNGUS-like protists... but what the heck)

Edit: http://waynesword.palomar.edu/trmar99.htm#protista
note: kingdom "monera" is now broken up into two- kingdom archae and kingdom eubacteria.
 
  • #44
It seems this topic has changed since it started, but here's my answer to the question. You do not have to boil tap water for aquatic utrics. I have grown several varieties, all in ponds or containers fed with tap water. I don't have super heavy water, but it is by no means the purest.

The best thing you can do for an aquatic Utricularia is to put it in a pond environment with other plants; that way you get lots of daphnia feeding your plants, and natural organic matter creating a good pH or whatever - in any case it works much better than jars under lights inside.

Peter
 
  • #45
Well it's been outside for the past week and it seems to be doing alright. It's in distilled and rain water and it's doing ok. Thanks to everyone who posted.

-(Kyle)-
 
  • #46
Ok I just can't resist any longer!

I keep seeing this topic on the main page and think to myself. I like my Utrics boiled for about 30 seconds and then stirfried with a little garlic and ginger.
smile_n_32.gif
 
  • #47
It comes ready-stuffed I suppose...
 
  • #48
I've grown quite a few aquatic species and can definitely state that algae is an inevitable problem. Best bet is to establish a balanced aquarium well before introduction of the Utricularia, say a good month. Worst bet is to use high light and transparent aquaria with no other species. Boiling, gamma radiation, and devout prayer will fail because the algae my friends is already on the Utricularia and is introduced with it. I have heard of tentatidve success using dilute hypochlorite (laundry bleach) to sterilize the Utricularia, but can't confirm this by my own experiments. I don't remember the recommended dilution, but do recall it was very dilute, and a quick dip.

A "quick fix" method is to grow them in mineral free water contained in an OPAQUE container, keep it in 4-6 hr. broken sunlight with a layer or 2 of white plastic laid on the surface. Not too aesthetic, but the plants I grew like this throve and flowered. I have never had indoor success with these plants, ever, although in a well balanced aquaria it should be possible. Short term growing is possible, but the algae always overcame anything I ever tried eventually.

I suggest U. macorhiza as a good beginner subject.
 
  • #49
Ah.. mine is in a solid black container. I'm not exactly sure how long it gets full sun but it gets from sunrise to about 1. So that's maybe about 5-7 hours I guess. It seems that most of the plant is dead but about 4-5 inches of it is still green and healthy. I think that's where the growth point of it is. I'm not too worried but I'm going to go out sometime and find some daphnia. Thanks for the extra tips.

-(Kyle)-
 
  • #50
I keep seeing this topic and I can't resist any longer either...

Friends don't encourage friends to use Water Hyacinth (Eichornia crassipes) anywhere in North America. It's an exotic introduced species that is costing tax payers millions and millions and millions of dollars to control, manage, and eradicate. It is stated that a cold hardy ecotype is currently in existence thanks to some moron in Minnesota. The plant probably would have mutated on its own over time but did he/she have to speed up the process. Please, there are many other choices of plants to use to attempt to control algae.

"Water Hyacinths... goodness gracious what an overpoweringly attractive plant. To many water gardeners, this plant appears to be the equivalent of the forbidden fruit in the garden of Eden. It is virtually irresistible. The plant is an ecological nightmare... the equivalent of zebra mussels in the Great Lakes and Kudzu and fireants down south and so many other exotic invasives that out compete native flora. WH can survive almost as if it was a terrestrial in many areas. When ponds with hyacinth dry up, they get buried in the dirt and the first rains rejuvenate them. WH can survive temps in the 20's and being frozen in ice for short periods. They never completely die in the South unless physically removed and destroyed.

WH is a non-native plant to the US that has naturalized in many native waters throughout the milder climates of North America. This plant is not controlled by its natural, co-evolved enemies in this North American non-native habitat it has colonized, and its phenomenal rate of growth results in vast areas of natural waterways being choked with water hyacinth. The effects of this spread include pre-empting surface waters that less aggressive native plants would otherwise colonize, shading the bottom so thoroughly that submerged vegetation cannot grow, which in turn deprives many fishes of spawning and feeding habitat, and choking waterways so that they are not navigable.

The problem with this plant is that people assume that its reproduction is always vegetative and this is not so as it can and does reproduce sexually which means birds can pick it up and spread it. To me, this is a plant deserving of being wiped off the face of North America. Water Hyacinth somehow manages to always find its way into waterways and it spreads rapidly. It blocks entire river systems completely, shading out the river and starving the water of oxygen. All the native water plants die in the deep shade and fish can and do die from suffocation and or an inability to sustain themselves as native fish hunt by sight. The seeds can remain dormant for as long as 15 years- this should tell us something about this plant.

Given all the research currently available on this plant that irrefutably deem it more than capable of wreaking havoc in the environment and given the costs of clean up to the American tax payer, I believe anyone growing water hyacinth who resides in an area where this plant can possibly escape to natural waterways to be in need of rethinking what it is that this plant does for them that makes it worth the risk. The plant is currently illegal to possess in quite a few states which includes Florida and Texas. The fines for possessing this plant without the proper permitting appear to be quite stiff. I have no doubt other states will be following suit."
 
  • #51
Sorry, I grow in the UK and didn't check the location of the OP (Pensylvania). I have also been led to understand that trade in Water Hyacinth is banned in many US States, as well as possession in a couple.
 
  • #52
Hi Rob, Water Hyacinth isn't indigenous to your side of the pond either. If I am not mistaken, you all have had your fair share of problems with this plant "escaping" too. The plant is so darn pretty and so darn functional (great nitrate uptake factory) that people freely trade it amongst themselves and drive across state boundaries to purchase it from road side stands and nurseries where it is still legal. This plant reproduces at such a rapid rate that people who can't pass it on to others think nothing of tossing it in composters. The compost obviously gets used at some point in time and we all know the seed of this monster is viable for years. This does not include people who have no knowledge what so ever of this plant’s "attributes" who have "seeded" inland bodies of water.  There are hundreds of examples over here where people were unwilling to bag up and throw out their excess Water Hyacinth so they placed their plants in local ponds and lakes in a misguided attempt to “beautify” the area. These ponds and lakes are generally connected to streams and such that obviously flow somewhere so the plant ends up down stream where it infests other watersheds. Recent hurricane activity in our southeastern states proved that Water Hyacinth could be transferred to other inland bodies of water where it flourished. So much for all the people who claimed they could keep it under control in their backyards. Our government hasn't done the greatest job educating the public. The information is out there but you sometimes have to dig for it so don't feel bad about having suggested it. I hate to do this but I have to admit that I used to have it in one of my ponds. It was given to me by a friend's Mother In Law who had “extra”. The pond was in full sun so it grew well, very well. As mine multiplied, I diligently removed and composted the excess. I had no idea what a beast this was even in states where it doesn’t overwinter until I sent a photo of my front pond where my beloved Water Hyacinth was growing to another friend (Biologist) who told me to get rid of it fast before it ended up in one of the natural ponds because of all the heron around here. Embarrassing is about all I can say however I enjoyed crystal clear water for one entire season using no mechanical filtration.

Has anyone seen Cornell University's Pimental Report from a few years ago?

This might prove interesting reading-
http://www.propertyrightsresearch.org/article....te9.htm
 
  • #53
Didn't know that about the seeds. Interesting. The UK has never had a problem with the plant, though I don't know about further south into warmer parts of Europe. Mine has never flowered in the UK in the few years I have been using it - prob too cold despite being in a greenhouse. In fact the plant this year has been so efficient at starving the water that it is very weedy in my utric tanks this year! Half it's normal size and showing no signs of making all those offshoots. Might pop some more back into my brother's pond to get some divisions of it up and ready for next year's season.
 
  • #54
*does a google image search* Ohhh! My mom bought one of them for the mini pond last year! It never flowered but I thought it was a neat little thing. It must not be illegal here cuz she bought it from a pretty popular aquarium/petshop place. Anyways, I'm pretty sure it has become dead by now, it's got water but no sunlight. The weeds completely ate the pond. It's more or less just like a trap door now. You try and walk on the weeds and fall in a small pool of water. xD I should trick someone with that.... hmmm... *starts devising a plan*...

...wow look how far off subject I've gotten!...*click*
 
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