Newbie questions about water, pH

[grumpus]

Hello!

I'm planning to try a VFT soon. I've never grown CPs, but I live less than 100 miles inland (Charlotte) from the VFT's natural habitat so I think I can easily keep it outside - probably even through winter if I want. We have the same winter temperatures as Wilmington. Lucky, eh?

I've been doing my homework, but have a few questions I haven't seen answers to:

1. I never see anyone mention pH. Is this because the plant should be in a peat/sphagnum + sand/perlite mix, so the pH will take care of itself and remain somewhat acid?

2. How much standing water do they need? Simply enough to cover the pot's drainage holes?

3. What is the maximum ppm a VFT can handle in its water? No, I am not considering tap water, but I see so many people mentioning the importance of using rain or purified water I wonder just how much mineral concentration the plants can tolerate.

4. Should one take care to change the plant's standing water frequently to avoid buildups of solids/pathogens/etc., or flush the growing medium? I know they are bog plants, but I figure stagnant rainwater might not be the same kind of nasty water they like in the swamp.

Are there special considerations for leaving the plants out in the open rain? Can they drown?

I'll stop now before more occur to my rambling mind.

Thanks, and don't hate me for living within driving distance of the Green Swamp!

 

[CPlantaholic]

Welcome! You're smart to do research first. I killed my first venus fly trap when I tried going into it blindly. It's easy to grow cps if you just follow a few simple rules.
1. yes and yes. you may want to transplant your venus fly trap every 2 years or something obscure like that, just to give the plant a "reboot" as some have referred to it...

2. enough so that the soil is moist and not saturated. Maybe a 1/4th inch up the pot or less.

3. I actually grew sundews and vfts outside last year using well water, which I thought was low in ppm *doh*
Turns out after droseraguy measured it w/ his tds meter, the water was 350+ ppm. They seemed to grow fine.
Granted it rained a few times, which may have decreased it a little. The lower the better, though.

4. Make sure to rinse the media before potting it up- soak the peat in water and squeeze it out with multiple rinses. Then you won't have to worry about switching out the water nearly as much. Maybe every month for safety, you can change the water. Top water the plant to avoid mineral buildup on the soil surface. Flushing the pot every so often is a safe bet for maintaining the longterm health of your cps.

hope that helps.
just finished my hw and need 2 get to bed. what am i doing up right now!!??!!

 

[Not a Number]

Hello!

I'm planning to try a VFT soon. I've never grown CPs, but I live less than 100 miles inland (Charlotte) from the VFT's natural habitat so I think I can easily keep it outside - probably even through winter if I want. We have the same winter temperatures as Wilmington. Lucky, eh?

I've been doing my homework, but have a few questions I haven't seen answers to:

1. I never see anyone mention pH. Is this because the plant should be in a peat/sphagnum + sand/perlite mix, so the pH will take care of itself and remain somewhat acid?

That's correct. Sphagnum by nature is slightly acidic.

2. How much standing water do they need? Simply enough to cover the pot's drainage holes?

It pretty much depends on a number of factors such as how much Sphagnum (either peat moss or long fiber sphagnum (live or dead) you have in your mix and you weather conditions. As long as the medium never dries out you should be fine. If the bare minimum of covering the drainage holes keeps this from happening then it should be ok. A safety margin might be a good idea in case there is a spell of dry weather and you're not available to water the plants. When the plants are dormant it is usually better to cut back a little on the water but again don't let it ever dry out.

3. What is the maximum ppm a VFT can handle in its water? No, I am not considering tap water, but I see so many people mentioning the importance of using rain or purified water I wonder just how much mineral concentration the plants can tolerate.

The maximum amount of total dissolved solids in water that is acceptable for carnivorous plants varies depending on who you talk to. Some will say below 100 ppm (parts per million) is fine, other will say below 50 ppm. Keep it below 50 ppm and you'll satisfy both groups.

4. Should one take care to change the plant's standing water frequently to avoid buildups of solids/pathogens/etc., or flush the growing medium? I know they are bog plants, but I figure stagnant rainwater might not be the same kind of nasty water they like in the swamp.

This would be good practice. You'll probably have to change your medium less frequently.

Are there special considerations for leaving the plants out in the open rain? Can they drown?

Dionaea tolerate flooding quite well. No worries there. One grower has even grown VFTs semi-aquatically with no apparent harm.

I'll stop now before more occur to my rambling mind.

Thanks, and don't hate me for living within driving distance of the Green Swamp!

Contact Ozzy and he can give you a tour of the Green Swamp and many prime carnivorous plant sites in the area.

Welcome to TerraForums!

 

[jimscott]

Welcome to TF! The rest was covered.

 

[grumpus]

Thanks a lot for the welcomes and the thorough replies.

The local university (UNCC) has a nice collection of CPs in its greenhouse, and they have a Spring Plant Sale coming up in a couple of weeks. They have little bog gardens on sale for $50 now, but I would rather kill one plant at a time due to newbie mistakes than a whole bin full of them.

Ok, so maybe I'll get a sundew, too. But not a whole garden. Hmm, I bet I can get nice unfertilized Sphagnum and Perlite from them. So far everywhere I've checked only has the "enriched" stuff. No good.

The total dissolved solids debate makes me want to experiment. Our tapwater is only 50 ppm, though it runs slightly alkaline even after dechlorination. Maybe I'll see if I can get one to live on tinkered-with tap water.

Not a Number: Funny you should mention a tour of the Green Swamp. I was just thinking about doing that this year. I've lived in NC my whole life and been to the NC/SC beaches dozens of times, gone to all the resorts and historical spots, but have never taken advantage of being so close to the Swamp.

So, thanks again for the information. And thanks to everyone who posts any questions, pictures, grow journals, terrarium ideas, and everything else on the forums. It all helps newbies like me to soak up knowledge and get ideas. When I get my plant(s) I'll try to post some pics and show people what I'm up to.

 

[Not a Number]

Ah, UNCC - that means Larry Mellichamp and all the lovely Sarracenia hybrids he helped breed. A mini-bog may actually be easier to care for than individual pots but I can understand your concern of "putting all your eggs in one basket".

If you can, get photos of some of these mini-bogs and plants they have.

 

[adnedarn]

Welcome to TF!! I just wanted to comment on the TDS thing... I'm not sure the amount of TDS really matters in the short term. It's long term that matters! If you are using a 10 tds water (like RO) but you use the tray method, and the pot is somewhere that you need to replenish the water often, the minerals will build up quickly in the pot to an unsafe level... When on the other hand, if you top water witha 75 TDS water.. you are constantly rinsing the extra minerals out the bottom of the pot so the level never builds. So don't only keep in mind the TDS of the water-- but the possibility of build up over time.
Good luck on your first attempt! It seems you'll probably have no problems

Andrew

 

[grumpus]

Ah, UNCC - that means Larry Mellichamp and all the lovely Sarracenia hybrids he helped breed. A mini-bog may actually be easier to care for than individual pots but I can understand your concern of "putting all your eggs in one basket".

If you can, get photos of some of these mini-bogs and plants they have.

Yes, that's him. I didn't see him, but I saw his office and a lot of his plants in the CP room. Heh, I didn't know he and his hybrids were famous. When I was at the greenhouse a few days ago I actually took a few pictures, but none in the CP room (for some reason), even though I spent the most time in there staring at things and getting the bug to grow them.

I'll go back next week and try to get a good set of photos of all the CPs and make a new thread for them.

For giggles, here's a shot I took of their Tongue Orchid. No, it's not a CP, but it should be!

 

[grumpus]

Welcome to TF!! I just wanted to comment on the TDS thing... I'm not sure the amount of TDS really matters in the short term. It's long term that matters! If you are using a 10 tds water (like RO) but you use the tray method, and the pot is somewhere that you need to replenish the water often, the minerals will build up quickly in the pot to an unsafe level... When on the other hand, if you top water witha 75 TDS water.. you are constantly rinsing the extra minerals out the bottom of the pot so the level never builds. So don't only keep in mind the TDS of the water-- but the possibility of build up over time.
Good luck on your first attempt! It seems you'll probably have no problems

Andrew

So I guess if you were worried about solid buildup in the medium, you could just flush it and measure the runoff, and if it was high, just keep flushing until it's clear?

Or, I suppose one could just avoid all that and make sure to use rain or purified water like everyone says. Heh...

Thanks for the encouragement and the information. Between the people here and the people at the UNCC greenhouse, I seem to have access to a lot of expert help - and healthy plants to get started with.

 

[adnedarn]

I use RO in my greenhouses... and have some plants that have been on the tray method of watering for years with no indication of problem... The closest thing I do to rinsing the pots out is if I see a lot of algae build up in the tray (which seems to be an indication of high minerals in the water) I'll over water the plants and have the water closer to half or 3/4 up the pots.. let them soak there.. then pull them out and dump the water out and go clean the tray...
Sometimes though, you'll see a plant declining for "no reason" and you can run water through it and check the run off (as you mention) you'll notice high TDS... at that point you can just tranplant it.. if you're using water that is close to acceptable, this should be a few years down the road and the media probably needs to be changed out anyway

Andrew

 

[jimscott]

The college may be able to set you up with the water, whether it be RO, distilled, or deionized. I worked at an environmental laboratory that gave me all the free deionized I wanted.

 

[grumpus]

Andrew -

Thanks, good info again. Now I see why there's so little mention of dissolved solids and pH in all the newbie growing guides. In meeting Dionaea's exacting demands, those measurements can't wander off target very far until the plant has been potted several years. So, I guess most people either kill them off or learn the advanced stuff long before those factors come into play.


Jim -

I think I should be ok on water, but if they'll hook me up I'll be glad to bring the jugs!

Mostly, I'm hoping I can pick the expert brains there, and perhaps get good growing media and healthy plants from them. I think they always have full bog gardens for sale, but I don't know if they sell individual plants and supplies all the time, or just during their big Sale Events. I'd rather support them and avoid buying stressed plants of unknown origins from retail stores or online if possible.

I think I'll go back Tuesday (the sun is supposed to be back out then...), see what's what, and take pictures of their CP room for you guys, as requested. Funny thing, I originally wandered in there to ask them about vermicomposting. Now I see why they have their CP room up front. It sucks you in - no pun intended.

I'll post an update after my next greenhouse visit, and hope to have enough material for a nice photo thread featuring Dr. Mellichamp's babies.

Thanks again... more soon.