When to bring in (First week in he sub-40s)

[mcantrell]

Ok, so update:

http://picasaweb.google.com/mark.cantrell/Plants

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They are on the porch next to the house. South facing, so they get full sun most of the day. They are frozen solid right now but should thaw out in a few hours. All except for the 3" pots are in insulated foam planters.

I was thinking of moving them into the garage. The color changes are worrying me. The garage gets to the mid 50s-60s during the day, however, I believe.

The 3" square pots I was thinking of moving back inside. The room stays 69-80F, however, I don't know if that will wake them up. I'd hate to lose those 2 baby Pitcher plants out there. And I sure as heck don't want to lose the Cobra Lily or VFT "Gold Strike". I think the Filiformis is already gone, but I have backups.

I do have a cheap little mini fridge, in an absolute emergency I could uproot them, put them in labeled baggies, and put them in the fridge for winter.

I guess my question at this point is -- will they live as it stands? If not, what should I be doing? Getting some mulch and bags?

 

[Woodnative]

Frequent freezing and thawing can be bad. That is worst than sitting under an insulating blanket of snow. BTW, if you bring them inside, can you keep them against a window, or better yet, do you have a glass door going out to a balcony? If you put them on the floor, right next to a glass door, conditions may be quite cool (possibly much cooler than the rest of the apt.). If you keep them outside, you may want to put them in a more sheltered, protected area that won't get bright sun. Bright sun is a necessity when they are actively growing, but repeated heating and freezing in pots can kill.

 

[mcantrell]

I can put them in the garage, but I fear they would do the same thing out there -- freeze, thaw, freeze, thaw, etc. Perhaps not as bad. But, no sunlight at all.

The rest of the house is heated.

 

[Baylorguy]

Mine are really slowing down right now. San Antonio, TX and the lowest temperature we've had thus far has been 38. Very slow new growth.

 

[dashman]

I live in zone 5 and my plants are still outside. Although, it has been a little warmer than usual lately. We are still in the 40-50s during the day and low 40's and high 30's at night. I figure mine will be out for at least another week or two. I will keep an eye on the weather until then.

I don't usually bring mine into the garage until it gets below 30 for an extended period. I will bring them out each day above freezing as well to get them some sunshine and probably more importantly fresh air to help stave off mold, fungus, infection, etc. They will probably go 2 staight months in the garage come Jan-Feb though. My garage is insulated so it doesn't get below freezing. If yours is not insulated, maybe you could get a small space heater to keep the garage just above freezing.

Here are pics of my temperates. I have trimmed most of the dead or dying growth, but still have some trimming to do before I bring them in.

 

[mcantrell]

So right now it's 25 during the day and as low as the single digits at night. I'm thinking that's a bit too cold for unprotected -- albeit insulated foam -- pots.

I tested the temperature in the garage right next to the house -- 35 during the day down to 25 at night. Would that be warm enough to save my plants?

I brought my cobra lily in to dethaw (it's been frozen solid for 3 weeks now) and th cats yanked it out of the pot, so it's now in a 3" pot, perfect size for putting in the fridge if that's the route I have to go...

 

[scottychaos]

So right now it's 25 during the day and as low as the single digits at night. I'm thinking that's a bit too cold for unprotected -- albeit insulated foam -- pots.

I tested the temperature in the garage right next to the house -- 35 during the day down to 25 at night. Would that be warm enough to save my plants?

I brought my cobra lily in to dethaw (it's been frozen solid for 3 weeks now) and th cats yanked it out of the pot, so it's now in a 3" pot, perfect size for putting in the fridge if that's the route I have to go...

the thing about insulation is..it only keeps things warmer if there is a heat source!
"insulated foam"..by itself..does nothing.
it wont keep anything warm if there is no source of warmth.

in other words..pots kept outside, in "insulated pots" means nothing..
in theory, they might hold on to a tiny bit of warmth from the sun..but probably for only about 10 minutes after the sun goes down..
at 3am, if its 10 degrees outside the pots..its 10 degrees inside the pots..insulation means nothing without a heat source.

your plants should not have been out this long, in this kind of cold..

we have been discussing this since september..why havent you moved your plants yet?
I thought you said you were going to put them in the refrigerator?
that should have been done a month ago..

Scot

 

[mcantrell]

Well, the cold snap is really new actually. It's been bouncing in the mid 40s-50s until recently, these last 4 days have stayed 25ish. Today's going to be a high of 18, but Sunday will be back to highs in the 40s. The problem is, that when it's 50 out, the garage was hitting 50-60, and I was worried that wouldn't give them a dormancy. There's no light in that garage, if they don't go dormant they'll die from lack of light instead.

Here's the temperatures last year:
http://www.wunderground.com/history/airport/KTWF/2008/12/8/MonthlyHistory.html#calendar

And here's last month:
http://www.wunderground.com/history/airport/KTWF/2009/11/8/MonthlyHistory.html#calendar

I can have them in the fridge this afternoon if you think that's the best route (temps around 35ish I think). Or I could put them in the garage against the wall (35 as a high, 25 as a low if I'm reading this right). I actually already have them in the far end of the garage, save the small ones, which are in a windowsill for today.

I think I'll do the fridge. If they aren't dead then they're definitely winterized, going to just put them in ziplock baggies and fridge them until March/April.

 

[scottychaos]

yeah, I would just put them in the fridge..
thats really the best place for them..
no temp swings, a nice steady and even 35 degrees..its perfect.

I always put them away for dormancy in the last week of Oct, or first week of Nov..
even if its still somewhat warm outside then..
yes, this November was unusually warm..but to me, thats meaningless..I wouldnt keep them outside through November no matter what..even if it remains warm-ish..
because I know the cold weather WILL arrive!
the fact that its a bit late this year is irrelevant IMO..the plants have been 'in storage" for a month already..

speaking of "a month already"..winter is already 20% over! woo!
(one month down, four to go.)

Scot

 

[mcantrell]

I've brought the VFT and S. leucophylla pot in to dethaw enough to dig the plants out for ziplock baggies. Gave the S. leuc a haircut at the same time, finally -- the bigger of the two, a Judith Hindle, was growing weird -- a second clump was coming out from under the main clump. Both (J. Hindle and "Titan") are still nice and green, so they might be fine out in the garage, who knows.

The VFTs are ... bad. The gold stike is gone I think, will know more once they thaw enough to dig out. hopefully not, but, at this point... The Typical, Dente, B52 and Akai Ryu seem to be almost ok -- they're not completely black.

 

[grumpus]

I know I'm arriving late to this topic, but here are two VFTs that have been living outside for about 9 months now. Living where I do (Charlotte, NC) I have the luxury of leaving them outside year round.

Reading this thread it seems to me that some people might be underestimating the cold tolerance of Dionaea. I'm in the same zone as Wilmington, which is rated at hitting about 15 degrees F at the lowest. The plants below have been outside on an elevated stand for the last week in sustained temps of 16-35 F. - quite a cold snap for us... about 15-20 degrees colder than average.

I know people in colder zones have to be more careful, as extended time below 15 degrees F. can kill VFTs, but when I see people rushing them inside when the temps get below 40 degrees I can't help thinking some people believe the VFT is much more fragile/tropical than it really is.

Wilmington's winter temps normally run in the 30-50 F. range, but there can be days or even weeks at a time when the night temps are below 20 degrees and the highs don't hit 40 - just like it is now. Wilmington is also not immune to snow. It's rare, but it does happen and sometimes they can get enough to complete bury VFTs for a few days. Admittedly, though, snow in this zone never stays on the ground for very long.

It's also very rare to have more than maybe a two-week stretch in the winter without at least a few days edging up toward 50ish degrees.

Anyway, here they are - they aren't pretty and photogenic; these are working plants! But they are doing very well, it seems, and haven't been killed by living in a tray of solid ice for the past week or so.

 

[cp-connection]

Thanks for the pics and important discussion grumpus. I agree that people hesitate to leave their plants out in the winter, especially in regards to Sarracenia. Its often to the plant's demise!

A brief temperature drop to 15 F might freeze the top inch or two of the ground. If you elevate a pot in those temperatures it will freeze solid even if it is a foot deep. Venus flytrap will survive being frozen like a brick but they will be smaller and weak in the spring.

 

[grumpus]

Yes, I've wondered if having them elevated might lead to too-rapid freezing and thawing, but if I leave them on the ground here they'll almost certainly become squirrel victims. Even elevated, I lost a tiny division from the red plant - plucked cleanly from its pot by a bird (I assume) earlier this summer.

This is my first winter with them, so I'm still really a newb and can't say that they'll emerge unscathed in Spring.

I use a tray of water within a tray of water to try to bulk up the mass and therefore the thermal stability as much as possible, but I realize it probably makes little difference.

Still, I reason that VFTs in the wild grow in heavily saturated ground or even in low standing water, so they should be able to handle being suspended in ice as long as the ambient temperature stays within their tolerable range, which it does here.

 

[mcantrell]

Well, my VFTs never quite look that good when I leave them out -- they lose a lot more color. I will admit to being somewhat gobsmacked at how colorful my Sarras were even after being frozen solid for the greater part of a month -- I almost wish I had just left them outside all winter, I think they could have taken it.

My VFTs though... Pretty sure I lost the Gold Strike, due to it being a bit too small to handle being, er, mishandled. The others didn't look too happy, either.