Do VFTs need dormancy?

[HeliGoddess]

I was wondering if it is necessary to provide venus fly traps with dormancy, or could I just grow mine in my terrarium all year round, without having it go dormant? It gets plenty of light
the temps would never get low enough to induce dormancy during winter. Could the plant maintain its strength and health if I don't allow it to go dormant?

 

[thez_yo]

I've heard that they'll slowly waste away if you don't provide a dormancy... on the other hand, mine get dormancy on a balcony in San Diego for all of a month or two, where it goes to 60Fday/45Fnight instead of the 75Fday/60night during the summer, and they're still doing good a year on. They did get less light hours too... so maybe they'll do fine if you lower the temps some and lessen the light hours, for instance if you have dews or something you want to try to induce to flower?

 

[antechron]

Hello Ann. You live in Utah? Awesome. Do you have other things in the terrarium? I would recommend taking them out of the terrarium, putting them into pots and growing them outside. I have actually found that VFTs can even grow in nearly full shade here in UT and live pretty well. Is there a reason that you can't provide a dormancy period for them? I have left mine outside before for most of the winter and it didn't kill them, so I would recommend trying that.

My experience with not giving VFTs a dormancy period is like this - they will grow fine for up to a couple years and then suddenly, they die and rot.

 

[seedjar]

Strictly speaking, they won't maintain their health without dormancy; I'm pretty sure every healthy indoor plant I've heard of has received dormancy cues of one sort or another. The essential part is knowing how to tell them it's time to take a nap.
You can trick them into enduring a few winters without dormancy, but mostly just when they're young, and each time you do it there's a greater risk of losing them. If you really want to have one indoors all the time, I think you could try taking leaf pullings when your plant is at its most vigorous, putting the adult plant to sleep outside when it starts to slow down, and growing the pullings out inside over winter. I know that some advanced growers bring seedlings to adulthood by growing them in controlled conditions with long photoperiods and repotting into new media each time growth begins to slow, until the first flowering, but once flowers come up you're on very shaky ground. I wouldn't be surprised if cuttings could be fooled into skipping dormancy with the fresh peat trick, too. I think there's an explanation of this method in the ICPS guide for rearing VFT seeds.
If you're just getting started with these plants, I'd strongly suggest learning the proven methods first and getting to know VFTs that way. If you're really bent on using a terrarium, you can still grow indoors while letting the plants go dormant through conscientious modulation of photoperiod and watering. It's certainly possible - some particularly savvy growers here have absolutely beautiful plants grown exclusively indoors - but you'll have much more luck doing experimental things if you first observe the plants in comfortable conditions and learn what to expect and look for. Besides, nothing spoils learning experiences better than early failure.
~Joe

 

[jimscott]

Not only do they need dormancy, they also need as much direct sunlight you can give them. They are not at all a houseplant.

 

[scottychaos]

I was wondering if it is necessary to provide venus fly traps with dormancy,

Yes.

or could I just grow mine in my terrarium all year round, without having it go dormant?

No.

It gets plenty of light

But likely, not nearly enough.

the temps would never get low enough to induce dormancy during winter.

thats bad.

Could the plant maintain its strength and health if I don't allow it to go dormant?

No. it will eventually die.

quote from my CP webpage:

VFT's and Sarracenia should never be grown indoors or especially in terrariums..
the climate inside a terrarium is just all-wrong for them..
the climate is fine for a few months...but VFTs and Sarrs need very different climates at different times of year..

Keeping VFTs and Sarrs in a terrarum is the same as trying to grow maple tree bonsai in a terrarium..
you can replicate June - August ok in a terrarium..sunny and warm..but what about the other 9 months of the year?

Maple trees need a gradually warming spring to come out of dormancy, a gradually warmer and sunnier summer, a gradually cooler and darker autumn, then a cold and dark winter to be fully dormant.

...cycle repeats...

so do VFTs and Sarracenia.
its not an option..its a necessity.

If you grow a maple tree indoors it will die within a year...the non-changing environment of a terrarium will also eventually kill a VFT.

VFTs need it warm and REALLY sunny in the summer..DIRECT sunlight..
where can you find that? outdoors in the summer!
Nature provides the perfect light for free..
then you need gradually decreasing photoperiod and gradually decreasing temps from summer into autumn..
where can you find that? outdoors..again nature does all the work for us.

The only tricky season for those of us in the Northern states is the winter..Spring, Summer and Autumn are a breeze..just keep the plants outdoors April - October.
but the plants need a COOL winter..the winter of South Carolina..
but winters in the northern states are too severe and will kill them if the plants are left outdoors..

If you have a cool basement or attic, or a garage that stays in the 40's (4-10C) all winter, thats fine
for dormancy..or ideally, if you live in the southern US where winters are mild, just leave your plants outside 24/7/365! but right now I lack any of those conditions..hence, they are going in the fridge!

http://gold.mylargescale.com/scottychaos/CP/page2.html

Scot

 

[jimscott]

LOL! We're a bit adamant in Western NY!

 

[eou812]

Yes no doubt about it DORMANCY required!

 

[HeliGoddess]

I was afraid of that. I don't have any VFTs, but I want to get some, and I don't have a place to grow them outdoors. I know my terrarium would be fine during summer, because there is tons of light output, and the humidity is low (30% or less). I was just hoping there would be a way to avoid dormancy, but I guess for now, I will be waiting until I can get a place to put a greenhouse or at least somewhere to grow them outdoors. For now I will be sticking to only growing tropicals in my terrariums then. Thanks for the info everyone.

 

[jimscott]

What plants do you already have in the terrarium?

 

[HeliGoddess]

D. Capensis
D. Scorpiodes
D. Rosenna
D. Palacea
D. Nitidula x Pulchella
D. Adelae
Cephalotus Follicularis
N. Ventrata cutting

The temp ranges from about 70F at night to about 80-85F during the day, and the humidity is really low, in the 20-30% range at most. I guess I could grow a VFT in there, then move it to my cold storage in my basement for dormancy, and then put it back in there for the growing season. I also have a highland terrarium, but I think that would be too cold for VFT and just overall wrong conditions anyways.

 

[jimscott]

The pygmy sundews and Cephalotus are also seasonal plants, though not as extreme as VFTs & Sarracenias. It's somewhat misleading to categorize the plants ito broad categories (tropical / sub-tropical / temperate), since it's more like a continuum. A lot of Neps. Utricularia, and many Drosera thrive in a terrarium, but it would be ones that come from climates where the seasons don't vary much.

 

[HeliGoddess]

I know they are seasonal, and I change my photoperiod on the terrariums as well as decrease temperatures slightly during winter. The cephalotus and pygmies definitely slow down, and I get lots of gemmae from my pygmies every fall.

 

[jimscott]

"If it aint broke.."

---------- Post added at 03:26 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:22 PM ----------

Hodgepodge of one section of my terrarium:

 

[nepguy]

I used to run a death-camp for venus flytraps trying to grow them inside under lights, that is until someone advised me to grow them outdoors. I've been growing them outside in the sun for many years now, repotting them every spring, and every year the population about doubles.

The winters are a challenge in Pennsylvania, but I rigged up an old picnic cooler with some flat containers of water inside to moderate the temperature. It makes an effective cold frame. I have a removable sheet of rigid clear plastic on top that I can adjust according to the temperature so they can get some sun without getting too warm. If it's just too cold, I don't open it, and on occasions when the temperature becomes truly arctic, I just bring it into the basement just to be safe (but I probably don't need to).

VFTs really do need sunshine and they really do need to go dormant in the winter. They need to get consistently cold, but not too cold, and the day-length gives them their cues as to when it's time to sleep or wake up. They don't need to have anything done to augment humidity outside in the summer, either (like a terrarium). They do just fine without it.

 

[eou812]

You also have the option of putting in the fridge if there is no place outside but beware of fugus use a sulfur based fuguside on the soil and tue plant when putting in the fridge hope this helps and very nice VFTS nepguy what size pots are those?

 

[nepguy]

Thanks 812. That's kind of you to say. The little pots are 4 1/2" across the top, and the big ones are about 9 inches. They're relatively deep, like 6" or so. I like to use deeper pots because it's easier to keep the water line beneath the bulbs.

 

[scottychaos]

I guess I could grow a VFT in there, then move it to my cold storage in my basement for dormancy, and then put it back in there for the growing season.

Sorry, but thats no good either..because the plant has to be dormant BEFORE you put it in the "cold storage" (where ever that might be) and the plant wont go dormant in the terrarium..if the plant is not already dormant before you put it into cold storage, the shock will kill it..
it needs to be outdoors for several months (as summer gradually turns into autumn) for the plant to "go dormant"..

another quote from my webpage:

My plants go into the fridge in the late fall. late October or early November.
whenever the nighttime temps begin to seriously fall below freezing. (32F, zero C)
They stay in the fridge all of November, December, January,
and they usually come back out in Mid February..Valentines Day. 3 and 1/2 months dormancy.
but..Mid-February is still the dead of winter here! still far too cold outside.
So they sit indoors in front of a bright window to slowly come out of dormancy.
then, by April or May, they can go back outside for the season..
they remain outside ALL Summer, and then into Autumn..
I keep them outdoors all through August, September and into October, as days and nights
gradually fall into the 60's, 50's, 40's.. (15..10...5C)

I wont even consider bringing them inside unless its going to fall below freezing
or if there is a heavy frost forecast for overnight.
This way, nature creates a natural dormancy for me!
I dont have to do a thing about "making them go dormant"..
they go dormant naturally through all of late summer and into autumn..
then, by the time they are ready for the fridge,
they are already fully "asleep" and are ready to continue that sleep in the fridge..

Please note that the fridge does not cause or create the dormancy!
it simply maintains the dormancy that was already started naturally by keeping the plants outdoors all season..the plants need to be already dormant before they go in the fridge.

(this is handy..saves me from writing things out all the time!


Scot

 

[HeliGoddess]

Sorry, but thats no good either..because the plant has to be dormant BEFORE you put it in the "cold storage" (where ever that might be) and the plant wont go dormant in the terrarium..if the plant is not already dormant before you put it into cold storage, the shock will kill it..

Dang, I guess I will just have to find a place to grow them outdoors. Thanks for the help.