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Venus-flytrap

  • Thread starter eplants02
  • Start date
  • #81
Another way of asking this is. If John (hypothetical character) thought that stealing was wrong and he didn't do it his whole life so that he had lived a good life by those standards. And Joe (another character) thought that stealing was OK and did it his whole life. How can both be correct if we apply this to say Hindus and Christians. They believe totally opposite things, yet both are correct? How can this be?
 
  • #82
Scottychaos and BiggGun you all are sooooo right on. I'm sooooo glad you are both around to contribute to the topic.

No offense Snowy Falcon but please, please, please open your eyes, The Bible is not everything, Don't believe everything you read.

I LOVE VENUS FLY TRAPS NO MATTER HOW THEY CAME TO BE.
 
  • #83
No offense taken Los Angeles Traphole!
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But realize that alot of evidence lies on my side as well.

SF
 
  • #84
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (SnowyFalcon @ July 21 2003,5:22)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Another way of asking  this is.  If John (hypothetical character) thought that stealing was wrong and he didn't do it his whole life so that he had lived a good life by those standards.  And Joe (another character) thought that stealing was OK and did it his whole life.  How can both be correct if we apply this to say Hindus and Christians.  They believe totally opposite things, yet both are correct?  How can this be?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Ah..ok, I see what you mean now..
Hindus and Christians dont believe "opposite" things..they believe "different" things.
Their individual Gods (or "the one" God if it turns out they are one and the same) have given both cultures rules to live by..
If Christians live according to their God's rules, they will be rewarded by their God..If Christians break their God's rules, they will be punished by their God..
The same applies to Hindus..
Hindus arent required to live by Christian rules, just as you are not required to live by Hindu rules.
God has given each side "rules to live by", each individual person must live by those rules, or face the consequences..

As for John and Joe, If Joe thought stealing was ok, where did he get that idea? it obviously wanst from God, as no God has ever said stealing is ok..
Society and God both disagree with Joe, both will probably punish him. unless he is mentally ill, he will probably deserve the punishment..

Scot
 
  • #85
Hindus have many many gods and Christians one.  I don't see how this idea can be reconciled into 'rules of the culture'?  Is there one God or many little gods.  These are totally foreign things. How can one God with one nature have many different sets of rules? He is either one or many, not both.
 
  • #86
only one God is capable of making rules?
why cant many Gods make rules together??
 
  • #87
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (scottychaos @ July 21 2003,3:40)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">only one God is capable of making rules?
why cant many Gods make rules together??[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
becuase there is only one God.

Oh, and I read literal history too! actually, the word history is biblical. His-story! (His is referring to God)
 
  • #88
The enforced exclusivity of any religion is it's downfall. It is hard to effectively communicate with people who claim an exclusivity on the truth. It is also hard to live peacefully with people who believe you are condemned to #### based on your beliefs. There is nothing wrong with scientific inquiry, open discussion, and constant re-evaluation of one's beliefs. Information and communication are always good.

I am of the belief that we don't know the ultimate truths. I am an atheist, but live mostly by Judeo-Christian ethics. The most important one, according to Jesus, is to love your neighbor as you do yourself, and it strikes me as good enough logically to live by. I won't tell my Christian friends they are wrong, or that they are condemned to ####. I would hope they wouldn't do the same for me, but I understand when they do (and they do&#33
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Look at what's going on in the middle east, where open communication and acceptance of divergent ideas are frowned upon. Is that how we want to be?

It's OK for me to be an atheist and SF and Spec (among others) to be Christians. We can co-exist in an atmosphere of mutual respect (in fact, we can only co-exist in that atmosphere.) These are always touchy subjects, and it's easy to think the other side are morons. (They almost never really are.) As long as we realize we are on the same side, and keep reminding ourselved of that, we can have these discussions without acrimony.

This is the triumph of the great American experiment. People of ALL different stripes cooperating to build a society where we ALL are free to practice our beliefs. It's a radical idea, almost unheard of in history. But history is rife with examples of religious (or non-religious in the case of some communist states) arrogance causing conflict and hatred among peoples. We are better than that!

Oh, and VFTs are cool no matter how they came to be!

Capslock
 
  • #89
"It's OK for me to be an atheist and SF and Spec (among others) to be Christians. We can co-exist in an atmosphere of mutual respect (in fact, we can only co-exist in that atmosphere.) These are always touchy subjects, and it's easy to think the other side are morons. (They almost never really are.) As long as we realize we are on the same side, and keep reminding ourselved of that, we can have these discussions without acrimony."

I agree 100%
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I don't care if people ahve different religions than me, that does not keep me from befreinding people. heck, I've been freinds with people with pretty much every religion known, and we get along just fine. The cp world is a peacefull one, no matter what the religion. Lets keep it at that. (and maybe lock this topic to prevent a possible argument.)
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Peace
-Spec
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EDIT: as someone said earlyer, there is really no point in this topic, as obiously no one is going to change their belifes. i know this topic will go on and on untill it becomes a riot, lets lock it.
 
  • #91
This has been proved by science; that the Bible is the most reliable book ever written.  I wish I could find my science book to find some more interesting facts for you.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">he said it very clearly right here:
"Well first of all God wrote the Bible. Yes he used people to physically write it but the words are his. God told them what to write." that is speaking for God. no one can prove any of that is true, therefore it might not be, therefore it is saying you KNOW the mind of God..[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Actually yes, the Bible tells us that when we develope an intimate relationship with Him that he will tell us His thought
"For who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct Him?  But we have the mind of Christ."  1 Corinthians 2:16.

[/QUOTE]not at all! im saying that if GOOD vikings, hindus, wiccans, ancient Egyptians, etc, lived good lives and did what their God considered rightious, then they would be rewarded by going to their particular version of heaven.</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">

I seem to remember ancient civilizations sacrificing women and children to the gods.  Even today that kind of idolism is mad.  That is murder by ALL standards.

[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>What about all the Christians who were told to convert and/or kill the entire world? (the crusades)
what about the Catholics and Protestants in Ireland today who were told to kill each other?
Wouldn't this mean God had either lied to one side or made a mistake?
That time period was as many people call the dark age.  During that time Catholics dominated Christianity.  They called themselves Roman Catholics; and they adopted much of what the Romans had adopted(which was corrupt).  In that time the priests were the only ones that had acsess to the Bible.  The services the they conducted became shows.  The songs and sermons were in Latin(only the "highclass" knew latin; and the high class was made up of the priests).  It was not until The Renaissance(1350-1600) that the Bible became acsessible to the public.  John Wycliff(c.1329-1384) had the Bible translated into English.  It was not until Johann Gutenberg(1400?-146
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invented the movable-type printing press(1440), that the Bible was able to be produced unless written.  Gutenberg printed his first Bible in 1456.  This was called the Gutenburg Bible in his honour.  By 1500 when the Modern Age began, there was an estimated 9 million books in Europe(including the Bible) in contrast to a few thousand before that time.

I can't tell you exactly when the Christianity that is around today first made a comeback from the Dark ages, but I can tell you this if someone does mass killings or illeagal stuff, and claims to do it in the name of Christ, they are DEAD wrong.  If God said to kill people in His name then everything would be off.  They Bible states all over it that we are not to kill and that we should obey the law.  He knew we would mess up, though.  That is exactly why He sent Jesus Christ.

And one more interesting fact.  They Bible is the most stolen book in the world.

Islam Actually rose in A.D. 600. The Egyptian civilization began between 2300 & 2200 B.C.. The Greek City-states rose in 700 B.C.. The Latins established the Roman Republic in 509 B.C.

Another interesting fact. One of the books of the Bible was written in 535 B.C. This was written by Daniel who was near his death. He, through God, prophesied that Rome would rise. "And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as Iron." Daniel 2:40 You can see the Babylon empire as No.1, you can see the Persian empire as No. 2, you can see the Greek empire as No. 3 and you see the Roman empire as No. 4. Daniel wrote this nearly 100 years before it happened.

Respectfully,
 Wes
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  • #92
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The Bible is not everything, Don't believe everything you read.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>


But it is everything.  How can you not believe everything in the Bible when it is the word of God?
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I realize that everyone will believe what they believe and this freedom of religion is what makes this country great.  It was good discussing with you all and i wish all of you the best.



      Respectfully,

            -buckeye
 
  • #93
Caplock I forgot you in my last post, sorry,
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I embrace your atheist views even if I don't agree with you about the no God thing.

I think it is really unfair to believe that your religion, your Bible, your whatever is the only true way to get to God. I believe Heaven and God is open to all sentient beings.
As long we all respect each other's differences and live and let live we'll be alright!
 
  • #94
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (LOs Angels Traphole @ July 22 2003,12:03)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Caplock I forgot you in my last post, sorry,
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 I embrace your atheist views even if I don't agree with you about the no God thing.

I think it is really unfair to believe that your religion, your Bible, your whatever is the only true way to get to God. I believe Heaven and God is open to all sentient beings.
As long we all respect each other's differences and live and let live we'll be alright![/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
It's his life, he can have whatever religion he wants to have. There was really no point in saying that, as it will just cause an outbreak and argument.
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  • #95
Spec,
It's his life, he can believe anything about religions he wants to. There was really no point in saying that, as it will just cause an outbreak and argument.
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Scot
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  • #96
Scot,

It's his life, he can have believe anything about religions he wants to. There was really no point in saying that, as it will just cause an outbreak and argument.

Sorry just had to say that! LOL!!! I think the point has been made on all sides.

SF
 
  • #97
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (scottychaos @ July 22 2003,09:43)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Spec,
It's his life, he can believe anything about religions he wants to. There was really no point in saying that, as it will just cause an outbreak and argument.
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Scot
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[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Scot,
    Thats exactly what i was saying. It's his life, he can believe anything about religions he wants to. There was really no point in you saying that, as I just did
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Was that some kind of joke making fun of me?
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Spec
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  • #98
people, people
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,

Is this topic becoming an argument about religion? We all have different ideas about faith, etc, so try to chill on this. Its great to see people are interested in religion, etc., but if this leads to put downs or other wrong ideals, it won't seem nice.

Thank you-Zach
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  • #99
Spec,
No, I wasnt making fun of you..I think you completely missed my point.

when I said to you "It's his life, he can believe anything about religions he wants to. There was really no point in saying that, as it will just cause an outbreak and argument."

I meant "It's his life,(meaning its LOs Angels Traphole's life&#33
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he can believe anything about religions he wants to. There was really no point in saying that, as it will just cause an outbreak and argument. "

You were saying that L.A.T. shoudnt have said what he said, because "its Capslock's life, and he can think whatever he wants"

So I responded to you by saying you had no reason for commenting on L.A.T. expressing his opinion about capslock expressing his opinion!
what I said to you is the EXACT same thing that you said to L.A.T.
all the comments were fine, none of them needed to be commented on further..
the only people who made totally unnecessary and "out of line" comments were you and I..
yours was serious, mine was meant as irony, both of us didnt need to say it at all..


Scot
 
  • #100
Spec,

I believe you misunderstood what Scot posted a few posts ago. Your charge that there was no point in saying what he said was probably the result of the misunderstanding. Scot was re-affirming everyone's rights to their own beliefs, which was NOT likely to cause argument. I suspect you read it the other way around.

In any case, it reads to me like a simple misunderstanding.

Capslock
 
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