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Energy saving compact flrocent bulbs

In another forum the suitability of these compact flurocent bulbs for supplemental light came up, and I found the following info. Hope this is of help to anyone.

I was kind of interested to see about the light quality of these bulbs. I went to the OSRAM website (manufacturer of an energy saving bulb I had laying about)

They describe the bulb as a "Compact Flurocent Lamp"

I downloaded the product data sheet for the bulb, however it does not give distribution of the light frequency for the bulb. It does give the folowing details :
General Description

Technical - Light Technical Data

Luminous output in lumen 400 lm

Technical - Colors

Colour appearance LUMILUX INTERNA
Colour rendering group 1B
Colour rendering index (Ra) Min. 80 Max. 89
Colour temperature in Kelvin 2700 K


As the bulb is described as a 'Compact Flurocent', I'd imagine that the wavelength is similar to a 'normal flurocent' tube, COMPARED against an incandesant bulb.

Also, I heard that the reason incandesant bulbs are not suitable because they give light off too much light in the far red spectrum (infra red + heat) which disturbes the plant.

I found this info about light temp:

The color temperature of sunlight starts and ends at about 2200K, a red-orange light. Light temperature rises as the sun rises in the sky, getting progressively bluer. At mid-morning and mid-afternoon, say 10 am and 2 pm respectively, color temperature is about 5500K. The average person perceives this as neutral in color, and this is the temperature that most daylight film is balanced to. At noon, on a clear day, color temperature rises to about 6500K. On a hazy day, with no direct sunlight, color temperature can rise to 7500K.

also

fluorescent lights (typically 4000K, but can vary widely)

also

5K - 7K Kelvin: Strong Blue Light
Promotes bushy growth. Ideal for rapid growth phase of plants.
Greatly enhances all-around plant growth when used with super
high output, high pressure sodium or 3K warm metal halide lamps.

4.2K - 4200 Kelvin: Cool white Flourescents
Can be used as supplimental blue lighting when used with a 3K
source.

4K - 4000 Kelvin: Neutral Metal Halide
Best single source for plant growth, producing shorter, bushier
growth than 3700 Kelvin and color rendition. Used in general
plant lighting.

3.7K - 3700 Kelvin: Softer Metal Halide(coated)
This coated lamp is used in general plant lighting and for more
rapid growth than 4000 Kelvin produces.

3K - 3200 Kelvin: Warm Metal Halide
Highest photosynthetically active radiation (PAR) value of all HID
lighting for all phases of plant growth. PAR watts account for the
nutritional value of light and are a direct measure of the light
energy available for photosythesis.

2.7K - 2700 Kelvin: High Pressure Sodium Lamps
Redder color mix, used for propagation, blooming, supplemental
greenhouse lighting.

So I guess it would be ok as a supplemental light source, its 2700k, which is described as "Redder color mix, used for propagation, blooming, supplemental
greenhouse lighting."

Jacko
 
That's good info, but 2700 is far to close to the red end of the spectrum to be that usable for photosynthesis, which requires higher wavelengths. I should know, I tried one before researching
tounge.gif
.

Most CFLs will come as 4000K bulbs and can be very useful for a supplemental light source. They give out a better range of usable light for the plant. I personally use a 6500K "daylight" CFL for my own terrarium. From what I could gather in my research, that's going to hit upon the best color range.

Remember that CFLs, due to the way they work, are much more efficient than regular bulbs. You get more light for less power. So a 25 watt CFL will just about match a 100 watt incandescent. As supplemental lighting for your plants, I'd think a good 25 or 30 watt CFL would do, though I'd try for something more in a 50+ watt range if it will be your sole light source.

Just thought I'd drop in my $0.02 (adjusted for inflation).
alien.gif
 
I've got a question - all these fluroescent strips fit into the strip holders. Where does the power come from? I can't find any that just plug into a wall socket. As you can tell, I'm no electrician!
 
Alvin,
It's something called a "balast." I'm not sure how it works, but that's what it's called
wink.gif
Anyway, if you can find a "self-balasted" flourescent, it should have a plug.
I found 4', twin tube ones at HD for less than $8. They are self balasted, and I just plug 'em into my wall socket.
 
Alvin. The CFL bulbs look like this. I think the ballast is inbuilt?

They screw into a light socket, not a plug socket.
Here a few pics of the sort of thing I'm talking about...

Goodlamp2.jpg

cfl.gif


hope this helps,

Jacko
 
Correct on the screw in type having a built in ballast. Unfortunately this adds to the cost as you are paying for the ballast every time you buy the bulb. They do make compact fluorescent bulbs that fit into pin type fixtures which have separate ballasts. The drawback here is there are bunch of different bulbs and pin configurations that don't often match up. So you may be limited in bulb choice.

Tony
 
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Nicholas_Bostaph @ Sep. 09 2003,3:14)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">That's good info, but 2700 is far to close to the red end of the spectrum to be that usable for photosynthesis, which requires higher wavelengths. I should know, I tried one before researching
tounge.gif
.

[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

I was reading a similar thread (should have checked it first really) and here a reply by Tony Paroubek

It is in : Pet Flytrap Discussion Forums > General Discussion > Greenhouses, Terrariums and Bog Gardens > Fluorescents vs. compact fluorescents...

http://www.petflytrap.com/cgi-bin....7;t=239

Group: Moderator
Posts: 1698
Joined: Oct. 2001

Posted: Sep. 06 2003,12
wow.gif
2
HPS is used in most greenhouses as a supplement to sunlight, extend the day for long day plants, and to induce flowering. The bulbs are not there to grow the plants! If your plants are growing solely on artificial light then normal HPS alone is not what you want (or bulbs similar to HPS spectrum). It can be used but must be supplimented with metal halide or some other bulb capable of high levels of blue.

Keep in mind that spectrum is only a general measurement to judge what color light a bulb produces. The only way to know for sure exactly what the bulb produces in usuable light for plant growth is to look at a spectral graph of the bulb.

Watts mean very little other than how much energy the bulb uses when lit. Lumens is a measure of how much light is emitted and a better way to compare between bulbs.

Seedling - Your setup sounds like a good mix between the 3 bulbs your using.

Tony


Surely the 2700k light temp, being the same as HPS, would be suitable as a supplemental light ? No doubt a 4000k would produce more blue light = more usable light for growth though.

Jacko
 
Jacko,

I'm sorry, I may have misunderstood what you meant by "supplemental light". What I meant was that a 2700 bulb won't provide much energy for the plant because they can't really photosynthesize much with it, though they will get some. It would work fine if you have them in sunlight for a good amount of the time. I thought you might have been like me. I put my plants in the sun on the weekends, and when I get home from work, but that's only a few hours/day on average so I need something they can live off of for the rest of the time. Tony is right though, a spectral graph is infinitely helpful in making a decision on a bulb.


Sorry for the misunderstanding.
smile.gif
 
Nicholas_Bostaph,

I hope my post didn't come across as rude or anything (Sorry if so)
confused.gif
. You are right that the 4000k bulb is far more suitable than a 2700k.

Your post made me worried, as I recently put a 2700k, 25watt CFL over my traps (In the window sill), and thought perhaps the light frequency would be detremental to plant growth .

(Kinda like the way an incandesant bulb's light produces to much infra red)

Thats why I tried to find some other info out. However, I will replace the 2700k bulb (one I had lying around) with a 4000k bulb (next time I'm shopping), because of your advice!
biggrin.gif


Cheers
smile.gif
,

Jacko
 
  • #10
I'm using a 28 watt, 1750 lumen bulb to grow most of my collection (1 purpurea, 2 leucos and 3 VFTs), and they all seem happy and colorful. The VFT traps have a nice pink color, and even the leucos are turning red. Also, if you're growing plants under a light in a terrarium, I've heards it help to wrap at least three sides of it (leave one side open for viewing
smile.gif
) with tinfoil. The foil will reflect light back onto your plants that would otherwise be lost. This is what I've done, and the plants seem happy.
 
  • #11
Jacko,

No, you didn't sound rude; sorry if I did, I'm posting at work.
tounge.gif



I actually started my terrarium with that same bulb you listed...almost.  Mine was a 23 watt 2700K CFL.  That's when my plants started looking a little 'tired'
sad.gif
.  Since then I've switched to a 27 watt 6500K CFL to supplement their few hours of sunlight and they're all looking great...especially my D Intermedia: 6 flower stalks and still dewy and healthy as ever!  Can't wait to see how much seed I end up with
smile.gif
.  So that's why I mentioned using a higher wavelength...I just didn't want you to go through weakening plants like I did.


Anyway, best of luck with everything.  Make sure you keep us updated on how the little guys are doing.  Speaking of which, what are you growing anyway?
 
  • #12
I get you! I didn't realise the energy saving bulbs were just the same as fluroescent lights. I found this page on lumens: here, what would be the best?
 
  • #13
Alvin,

That PDF isn't the easiest thing to read, and its in a different format to the one I've got, anyhow...

I think that if you are just going to the the bulb for lighting, like in a terranium, then you'd need one with a light temp around 4000 Kelvin.

4K - 4000 Kelvin: Neutral Metal Halide
Best single source for plant growth, producing shorter, bushier
growth than 3700 Kelvin and color rendition. Used in general
plant lighting.


A selection of bulb codes from the PDF, on page 2 :

Green Section : 20-640 Cool White (4000k)
Yellow Section : 840 Cool White (4000k)
Orange Section : 940 Cool White (3800k)

if its going to be used as with daylight, then I guess? something around the 6000 to 6500 Kelvin mark (classed as 'Daylight' ). But I'm not sure whether this would be better than a 4000k bulb...

Does anyone else?
confused.gif


"5K - 7K Kelvin: Strong Blue Light
Promotes bushy growth. Ideal for rapid growth phase of plants.
Greatly enhances all-around plant growth when used with super
high output, high pressure sodium or 3K warm metal halide lamps."


A selection of bulb codes from the PDF, on page 2 :
Green Section: 10 -765 Daylight (6500k)
Yellow Section: 860 Daylight (6500k)
Orange Section: 965 Daylight (6500k)

Does this sound ok?

Nicholas_Bostaph,

I've got 2 vft's, and 2 Sarrencia's. Had them for around 15 months (probably more, I can only guess). And yourself, any pictures handy?

http://hometown.aol.co.uk/Bilfsonn/morepics/DCP_0003.JPG

http://hometown.aol.co.uk/Bilfsonn/morepics/DCP_0007.JPG

http://hometown.aol.co.uk/Bilfsonn/morepics/CP_0006.JPG

This last one is of the traps under a CFL

http://hometown.aol.co.uk/Bilfsonn/morepics/CP_0016+.JPG

Jacko
 
  • #14
Thanks for that. I've got some sarracenia seedlings that I'm going to overwinter on a windowsill, so they'll be getting some weak sunlight. Last year I germinated them under two incandescent blue daylight bulbs and they did great. For this year, they are much bigger though and was thinking of one daylight incandescent (which gives off a lot of heat which is useful in December/January) and one CFL.
I've found a 30watt CFL (equiv to 150w incandescent) but it tells me nothing about colour temperature. I assume one marked 'cool white' would be good. It's tough finding one that has a decent wattage though. We have one in the house which is equivalent to 60w, but it's a feeble weak light.
 
  • #15
Jacko,

I've got a Dente and Common VFT, and a flower covered D Intermedia
smile.gif
. Yeah, small collection for right now. Only been into this for about 3 months. I'm still living with my parents too so I've got 361 more days until I can start really building up that collection.
wink.gif


As for the color temperatures, I think the 4000 or the 6500 will work for you, as they both provide lots of light in the usable range for plants. Optimally, I would use both, maybe one of each. Flourescents only spike at certain points in the spectrum, so the two would compliment each other. Of course, that gets expensive and requires much more space.

Alvin, Cool white refers to the 3500-4000K range if I remember correctly. Warm white will refer to 2000-2500K bulbs, and daylight usually is in the 6500K area. I would think a 30w cool white CFL would work perfect for your plants, especially if you can supplement it with some daylight now and again.
 
  • #16
Last winter I had shop lights and CPF lights and my VFTS did great they turned a dark red at first .I had to take the cpf lights off in the summer 2 hot . I put the vfts in a window now .
 
  • #17
I can't find any bulbs which tell me the colour temperature
sad.gif
Even big websites that have every bulb imaginable don't seem to have such a thing as cool white. What kind of colour temperature does a bog standard CFL, the kind you see in supermarkets and DIY stores?
 
  • #18
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Alvin Meister @ Sep. 15 2003,9:22)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I can't find any bulbs which tell me the colour temperature
sad.gif
Even big websites that have every bulb imaginable don't seem to have such a thing as cool white. What kind of colour temperature does a bog standard CFL, the kind you see in supermarkets and DIY stores?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

I think the bog standard bulbs are 2700 Kelvin.

I agree, looking for technical details is a pig, but I looked around and found this out. I started at www.osram.co.uk, and was sent to this global site, and found some pages with the light temp details, for some CFL's for the UK (240 volts). I guess you should phone Osram with some product codes to try and find a local supplier.

I just put in a link to that page with the tech details, but it will not work. Gives an error about an 'invalid session'. So I'll just cut n paste in the details. Sorry if this post is a bit long . . .
sad.gif


Go to http://catalog.myosram.com/

click the links 'Lamps for General Lighting'

then 'Compact Fluorescent Lamps'

'Integrated Electronic Ballast '

Then pick a shape you would like. I went with the

'Single, double or triple turn ' link.

At this point, just to double check, I went a got a box of regular light bulbs (from the cupboard), to make sure the code for the fitting was correct. (E14/B22d ) (These codes are for the UK)
The page has a selection of links, condensed below. I've only pasted relevant details from some product codes.

click ' Economy (6 years) 3 turns - Cap: E27/B22d '

This is a link from the page. Its a 2700 Kelvin Bulb '4050300793153 ECONOMY 24W/827 220-240V E27 10X1 '

Product details
Product description ECONOMY 24W/827 220-240V E27 10X1
EAN Shipping Unit 4050300793153
Unit Shipping carton box (VS) contains 10 pieces (PCS)
General Description
Base E27
Energy label A
ILCOS FBT-24/27/1B-220/240-E27
New product NEW
Technical - Electrical Data
Effective current intensity in mA 185 mA
Rated volts Min. 220 V Max. 240 V
Rated wattage in Watts 24 W
Technical - Light Technical Data
Luminous output in lumen 1500 lm
Technical - Colours
Colour appearance LUMILUX INTERNA
Colour rendering group 1B
Colour rendering index (Ra) Min. 80 Max. 89
Colour temperature in Kelvin 2700 K


This is another link from the previous page. Its a 6000 Kelvin 'Daylight' Bulb'
'4050300793139 ECONOMY 24W/860 220-240V E27 10X1 '


Product details
Product description ECONOMY 24W/860 220-240V E27 10X1
EAN Shipping Unit 4050300793139
General Description
Base E27
Energy label A
ILCOS FBT-24/60/1B-220/240-E27
Rated volts Min. 220 V Max. 240 V
Rated wattage in Watts 24 W
Luminous output in lumen 1425 lm
Technical - Colours
Colour appearance LUMILUX INTERNA
Colour rendering group 1B
Colour rendering index (Ra) Min. 80 Max. 89
Colour temperature in Kelvin 6000 K


This is another link from the previous page. Its a 4000 Kelvin 'Cool White' Bulb'
'4050300553092 ECONOMY 21W/840 220-240V E27 10X1 C '


Product details
Product description ECONOMY 21W/840 220-240V E27 10X1 C
Base E27
Energy label B
ILCOS FBT-21/40/1B-220/240-E27
Technical - Electrical Data
Effective current intensity in mA 170 mA
Rated volts Min. 220 V Max. 240 V
Rated wattage in Watts 21 W
Technical - Light Technical Data
Luminous output in lumen 1200 lm
Technical - Colours
Colour appearance LUMILUX INTERNA
Colour rendering group 1B
Colour rendering index (Ra) Min. 80 Max. 89
Colour temperature in Kelvin 4000 K


These are just three examples of bulb's, in the three light temp's talked about in this thread. I'm not saying these are the best bulb's to choose, they're just the first ones I could find that can work for you. Take some time to look around the catalogue and you could find some improvement on those specs (I hope)

Can someone else be bothered to see whether the 'Long life 12yr' or 'Economy 6yr' bulbs produce more Lumens per Watt (better for plants) or whether one bulb shape is 'brighter' than another? (e.g Single, double or triple turn vs Globe shape)
It could be helpful, however I cannot be bothered, as I'm tired and it's late
smile.gif


Anyhow, I really hope this one helps,

Jacko
 
  • #19
Thanks very much, you've gone to a lot of effort there. I'll print it out and take it to a specialist lighting centre.

I still don't know why they can't print colour temperature on the box though - surely you'd be a bit miffed if you just wanted a light for the front room and it turned out to be too red or too blue.

Thanks
smile.gif
 
  • #20
The ones I've seen are generally warm white (2700) unless otherwise specified. I only saw a few though before I gave up scrounging for details and bought online.
tounge.gif
 
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