What's new
Joined
Nov 4, 2012
Messages
88
Konnichiwa!

First of all, I am not a Nepenthes enthusiast, but I like Nepenthes. I am quite unfamiliar with Nepenthes. In fact, I have been hardly growing Nepenthes in greenhouse. I remember the disappointed look (facial expression) of the great German Nepenthes & Heliamphora specialist, who is a worldwide distributer, when he saw a dying tiny Nepenthes (only one I had in my greenhouse at that time) in my Byblis greenhouse (see the far bottom in the page 1 of the thread: http://icps.proboards.com/thread/2348/scented-byblis?page=1) after the ICPS international conference in 2002.
Back to the subject,
My German friend (not the above-mentioned specialist, but he is also a specialist) kindly sent Nepenthes eymae seeds to me in 2013. I sowed the seeds in vitro, they germinated very well. Recently when I was tidying up the refrigerator, I found the remaining of the seeds without silica gel. Just curiosity, I sowed the seeds on February 9 in 2018. The seed was 5 years old. I noticed its germination a few days ago. I took the photos on March 2 in 2018.
I have often heard the viability of Nepenthes seed is quite short. It might be the fact when it came to the Lowlanders?
What is your experience?

Kind regards from the Far East
20180302_224905.jpg
https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4752/39864095934_c2692a943b_o.jpg
the germination from 5 years old Nepenthes eymae seeds

20180302_225436.jpg
https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4752/26703044788_46c8bf7296_o.jpg
the germination from 5 years old Nepenthes eymae seeds

26703044788_46c8bf7296_o.jpg
https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4719/39864096324_864e9d4426_o.jpg
the germination from 5 years old Nepenthes eymae seeds

39864095934_c2692a943b_o.jpg
https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4608/40574557081_5f96c9ba35_o.jpg
the germination from 5 years old Nepenthes eymae seeds

20180302_224618.jpg
https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4619/26703045168_87ae457a2a_o.jpg
the germination from 5 years old Nepenthes eymae seeds
 
Joined
Feb 22, 2014
Messages
1,496
Location
Oregon
Those seedlings don't look like Nepenthes to me. Do you happen to have a picture of the seeds?
 
Joined
Nov 4, 2012
Messages
88
Dear Nimbulan-san,

Konnichiwa! :)

Thank you very much for the reply. I must say the seeds/seedlings are definitely Nepenthes. I recommend you to edit your reply before I quote your reply.
O.K. I will post the update.

Kind regards from the Far East
 
Last edited:
Joined
Feb 22, 2014
Messages
1,496
Location
Oregon
Regarding your viability question though, it is true that lowland seeds tend to have a shorter shelf life than highland seeds. I believe that typical refrigerator temperatures can have a negative impact on them as well. There are some species such as N. sanguinea, N. vieillardii, and N. pervillei that I know can maintain very high germination rates after a year or more in storage and I've even heard of people being able to successfully store N. sanguinea seeds in a freezer. I'm not aware that this is a widespread phenomenon with Nepenthes seeds though.
 
Joined
Nov 4, 2012
Messages
88
successfully store N. sanguinea seeds in a freezer. I'm not aware that this is a widespread phenomenon with Nepenthes seeds though.

WOW!!!

Dear Nimbulan-san,

Konnichiwa!:D

Thank you very much for the fantastic information!

Kind regards from the Far East
 
Joined
Apr 19, 2012
Messages
4,663
Location
Greeley, CO, USA
Those do not look like Nepenthes seeds that are sprouting, sorry. You might have sown old seeds, but there was something else either in the soil or stuck with them. The shape of the early cotyledons reminds me of a legume or the seeds of some swamp plants that have sprouted from sphagnum and peat for me, and not what I would expect of a Nepenthes (that there is a marked rounded swelling and hard line between the stem and cotyledons in some of those photos is not something ever seen in Nepenthes and they don't have a papery or translucent coating sticking to them when emerging from the seed coat) .
Additionally, I have never heard of Nepenthes seeds that weren't sown within a few months of harvest ever germinating (those that take 18 months to sprout were at least on soil all that time, not stored), and even fridge temperatures can damage them, kill some, and in long term ruin viability altogether. They are tropical opportunistic plants, don't have mechanisms for seeds to survive long-term dry or cold storage.
 
Joined
Nov 4, 2012
Messages
88
Those do not look like Nepenthes seeds that are sprouting, sorry. You might have sown old seeds, but there was something else either in the soil or stuck with them. The shape of the early cotyledons reminds me of a legume or the seeds of some swamp plants that have sprouted from sphagnum and peat for me, and not what I would expect of a Nepenthes (that there is a marked rounded swelling and hard line between the stem and cotyledons in some of those photos is not something ever seen in Nepenthes and they don't have a papery or translucent coating sticking to them when emerging from the seed coat) .
Additionally, I have never heard of Nepenthes seeds that weren't sown within a few months of harvest ever germinating (those that take 18 months to sprout were at least on soil all that time, not stored), and even fridge temperatures can damage them, kill some, and in long term ruin viability altogether. They are tropical opportunistic plants, don't have mechanisms for seeds to survive long-term dry or cold storage.

Oh dear!
 
Joined
Aug 6, 2013
Messages
1,319
Location
USA, GA
I'd still grow them out to see what they are. Might be something interesting!


Just a random (but related, so maybe not so random) thought for the forum. Does the Svalbard Global Seed Vault have any Nepenthes seeds? If so, how do they keep them viable?


.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Nov 4, 2012
Messages
88
I'd still grow them out to see what they are. Might be something interesting!

Dear Acro-san,

Konnichiwa!

Thank you very much for your reply! The seeds/seedlings in my photos are definitely Nepenthes.

Hcarlton-san will take a lesson from this thread in the very near future.

Kind regards from the Far East
 
Joined
Apr 19, 2012
Messages
4,663
Location
Greeley, CO, USA
Despite all of the Nepenthes seeds I have sprouted before, I have never seen a single one look like any of these as they emerged, so while maybe there is a very small chance, I doubt I will be shocked by the results of this.
 
Joined
Feb 22, 2014
Messages
1,496
Location
Oregon
An odd thing just occurred to me: I don't actually see any seeds in any of these pictures, just emerging seedlings. Did you cover the seeds up?

In any case, I happen to have a few pictures of germinating Nepenthes seeds handy. You can see that among other things these are much smaller, the cotyledons are flat and green, and the seed coat is still present on all of them. The first one shows the size in comparison to a typical piece of Sphagnum quite well.

yWtbwxv.jpg


N1fzgrS.jpg


Zrkcflr.jpg


vUJmChH.jpg
 
Joined
Feb 23, 2014
Messages
337
Konnichiwa!

First of all, I am not a Nepenthes enthusiast, but I like Nepenthes. I am quite unfamiliar with Nepenthes. In fact, I have been hardly growing Nepenthes in greenhouse.

Thank you very much for the reply. I must say the seeds/seedlings are definitely Nepenthes. I recommend you to edit your reply before I quote your reply.

The seeds/seedlings in my photos are definitely Nepenthes.

Hcarlton-san will take a lesson from this thread in the very near future.

How stubborn, arrogant, and blind can a single person be? A quick google search would prove your wrong, yet, despite admitting to being unfamiliar with the genus, for some reason you not only still think that you're right, but you think that you can teach others what is right? :-))

Next time I recommend being a bit more careful ( having some common sense would also help). Only person that will "take a lesson from this thread in the very near future" will be you, Lechenaultia.
 
Joined
Nov 4, 2012
Messages
88
An odd thing just occurred to me: I don't actually see any seeds in any of these pictures, just emerging seedlings. Did you cover the seeds up?

In any case, I happen to have a few pictures of germinating Nepenthes seeds handy. You can see that among other things these are much smaller, the cotyledons are flat and green, and the seed coat is still present on all of them. The first one shows the size in comparison to a typical piece of Sphagnum quite well.

yWtbwxv.jpg


N1fzgrS.jpg


Zrkcflr.jpg


vUJmChH.jpg

Dear Nimbulan-san,

Konnichiwa! :-O

You are the second person, who noticed it. The first person was Manders-san in UKcpforum. You see the actual seeds /seedlings of Nepenthes. You don't see the seed husks of Nepenthes. You are the man!!!

Kind regards from the Far East
P.S. The title of this thread is "How old is too old?"
neither "ID please" nor "How to sow the Nepenthes seed"
So reply about "How old is too old?"
 
Last edited:
Joined
May 18, 2017
Messages
14
Am I correct in saying Nepenthes are a dicotyledon? As per your pictures, there is only one cotyledon emerging, which makes it a monocotyledon. Also, there are no wings present on the seed I see?

Everything I see, and what [MENTION=9012]hcarlton[/MENTION] and [MENTION=10989]nimbulan[/MENTION] also observe, show that without a doubt these are not Nepenthes seed of any species.

[MENTION=10183]Acro[/MENTION], interesting thought! From what I have seen at https://www.nordgen.org/sgsv/index.php?app=data_unit&unit=sgsv_by_species

It appears no carnivorous species are stored in the vault unfortunately :(

I was just talking with some people the other day, perhaps to extend the shelf life of Nepenthes seed, humidity is needed?
 
Last edited:
Joined
Apr 19, 2012
Messages
4,663
Location
Greeley, CO, USA
Even in the first set of photos there was one that clearly showed two leaves, so these are dicotyledonous, which does discredit what craigam claimed, but the second set of photos, more clearly representing what the seedlings look like, continue to suggest these are not Nepenthes. Cotyledon tips are more rounded than any Nepenthes I have ever sprouted or seen sprout, and the thickness is also unmatching. The young stem, as I mentioned before, is also reminiscent of that of young legumes, and the first photo of this second set shows the translucent seed coat they are germinating from, which not only lacks the wings present on all Nepenthes seeds (except N. pervillei, which I can guarantee the Nepenthes seeds here are not as those are also visible in the photos aside from the claim of N. eymae) but do not match the thickness, shape, or texture of Nepenthes seed appearances. I would not be surprised if they end up producing something along the lines of an Oxalis species or relative.

Yes, Lechenaultia, the title of your thread is "how old is too old," but identifying what is actually sprouting, which is at this point 99% certainly not Nepenthes seeds, is part of that; though you have old Nepenthes seeds on the soil, the fact that they are not what is germinating answers the question. Additionally, while one question is asked, sometimes it is not the question that truly needs the answer.
 

adnedarn

I'm growing CPs in the Desert of Tucson, Az
Staff member
Admin
Joined
Jul 12, 2001
Messages
9,124
Location
Tucson, Arizona USA
I think identification of the plants being discussed is important because this thread is discussing the viability of Nepenthes seeds specifically. Maybe not specifically mentioned in your thread title, but definitely in your first post.

I have often heard the viability of Nepenthes seed is quite short. It might be the fact when it came to the Lowlanders?
What is your experience?
 
Joined
Nov 4, 2012
Messages
88
I think identification of the plants being discussed is important because this thread is discussing the viability of Nepenthes seeds specifically. Maybe not specifically mentioned in your thread title, but definitely in your first post.

Dear Andrew-san

Konnichiwa! & Hajimemashite!

If the members discuss the seed's viability comparison between lowland species and intermediate species (or highland), it might be interesting. But If the members want further discussion of the ID (Nepenthes or legume), .... a waste of time...
I autoclaved the soil in the plastic container, where I sowed the Nepenthes seeds .120 degrees C, 20 minutes
I did not use my lamina flow bench (HITACHI CCV clean bench), But I do not think any seed of legume was floating (or drifting) in the room, when I sowed the seeds.
Kind regards from the Far East

20180306_204911.jpg

20180306_205050.jpg

20180306_205137.jpg
 
Top